Poor Minute Taking

Started by SusanW1 • 25 replies • 1575 views

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SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

For months, I have had a hard time accepting the poor job that our HOA secretary does taking the Board minutes. I have registered my concern to the president and suggested that the secretary look at past minutes to get a feel for how they are supposed to be written.

Here's exactly a portion of what is posted on our web site for November. (I deleted last names only):

Public Comments:
Paula said that Sue finished the reserve fund and Ken R. will have a lock on a major portion of the funds for road repairs.
Paula asked if anyone would be interested in a pot luck dinner for the subdivision held at the community center. It was decided to have it the Saturday after Christmas.
Minutes:
Debbie read the minutes from the last meeting; motion was made to accept minutes as amended all in favor.
Financial Report:
Cathy went over the financial report and the list of past due membership dues. Also did an audit for the workman’s comp.
Sue went over the reserve fund to set up a plan for re-doing the roads, instead of doing the roads in 2010 was moved out to 2012, with repairs to road done where necessary.

The kicker??!! I am the "Sue" in the minutes. BUT!!! I wasn't even there at the meeting!!

I happened to notice them on our web site, pulled them up and almost fainted. I have asked the secretary to delete anything with my name on it, since I was not there and second-hand conversation should not be in the minutes. These minutes were approved by the board!

Any suggestions? I am not on the board. I am the head of the Reserve Fund Committee.

DonaldM3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 132

Posted:

Susan, here’s some good tips on keeping minutes by HOA guru Richard Thomas of Regenesis:

http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20050601_hoaminutes.htm

I used to be Secretary of a HOA board some years ago and I did not like doing the job because it’s difficult to involve yourself in the meeting if you’re busy writing. The Secretary doesn’t actually have to take the minutes, if there is someone in the HOA that would volunteer to do that that is fine but the Secretary is responsible for publishing them, keeping them and getting the job done right.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

It is sometimes helpful to record the meeting and transcribe the ,inutes from that. The president must conduct the business directly and not allow of off track discussion. Also the example given describes a lot of stuff that has no need to be in the minutes.

I believe the expression used here before was: The ninutes contain what the Board decided and not was was said by the Board.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

I think many board Pres' just do not understand how important this position is to the assn. The minutes are a record of the actions of the board and the operation of the assn. All the "he said", "she said" info just does not belong. My assn hires a gal to do the job for us and our minutes are very professional. This is the route to take, especially if the sec is not capable of doing a good job. I don't know this is the case for our assn; I just think the board thought it was a good idea.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

I would definitely tape the meetings and there must be a site online that can give some info on the proper way to prepare minutes ( new business, old business, etc., etc.)

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665

Posted:

As secretary I don't have any trouble being involved and taking the minutes. When I started I simply did the following:

Before the meeting note who is in attendance.

Note the time the meeting is called to order

Write down each motion and who made it. (I don't hesitate to hold up the meeting to get the wording correct since the recorded version is what counts.)

Note who seconds the motion and who votes against it.

Note when the meeting adjourns.

Later I would go back and format the whole thing. It helps if you have the agenda as you can put together a list of agenda items. Then enter a motion under each item.

To be honest, now I have a blank template that I use. I find it takes just a moment to type each item. (I do have a good rate for my typing.) I use Microsoft Word and set it to a numbered list. I know to hold the control key down as I hit enter for line breaks within each item of business to keep it from incrementing.

My minutes take the form of:
John Smith moved to refund all the dues for the next year back to the membership. The motion was seconded by Susan Jones and carried unanimously.

Mary Poppins moved to cancel all further meetings. John Smith seconded the motion and it carried with the following people voting against the motion:
Susan Jones.

Quite honestly, my form comes from our city council's minutes partly because I receive them after each meeting and feel confident that the person taking them knows how to properly do his job. In public comments the person's full name and address is noted along with a very brief synopsis of what they said. If we ever have a comment from membership I will probably not publish the address.

WilliamT2 (Texas)
Posts: 8

Posted:

BODs are manned and run by volunteers.

Some are better than others.

Don't expect everyone to execute their duties in the same manner as you would.

What do you want from this forum?

Either help him/her do a better job or volunteer yourself.

If your already volunteering then deal with it.

This sounds like whinning.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

William -

I am concerned about liability and accuracy.

Some years ago one of our 12 bridges got damaged. Residents on the peninsula were told not to drive cars over the bridge. However, the board did give permission for one homeowner's contractors to finish his home at the end of the peninsula. Another resident raised a ruckus and filed suit against the board for unequal application of the "rules." The president of the board said at a board meeting that he didn't care if this resident's mother couldn't get over the bridge for Thanksgiving dinner, no one was getting over that bridge. THAT was written into the mintues! A smart lawyer got ahold of the minutes, saw that and requested a jury trial. (Can you imagine a jury's reaction to a statment that the board president didn't care if Grandma couldn't get over the bridge, but a contractor could?) The president made an off-the-cuff remark - ALL recorded in the minutes.
We settled - out of court - for $12K.

I was not at the November meeting, yet I am being wrongly quoted and, later, it says I gave a report!

Since these are the legal records of the HOA, I just want accuracy. (And I'd never use the words "locked up" to describe designated funds)

I guess I am "whining" -

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Susan, you are "not" whining.......... you are anal.

Don't feel bad about it, I am also anal.

It's the problem we have to deal with for being type "A" personalities.

If someone is going to do something, such as volunteer to be a board member, I don't accept the excuse that they can do a crappy job "just because" they are a volunteer. I expect them to do a good job or "learn" how to do a good job or don't volunteer.

It's like those that volunteer to get on the board but then don't want to actually do anything but show up. LOL

You keep that bar raised Susan!!!!!!!!

;)

Dana

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Hopefully those are the Unapproved Minutes! Have they been read and approved at another meeting? If not, I'd certainly show up at THAT meeting and raise a rukus.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Approved or not, I would make a FORMAL motion at the NEXT meeting (that the secretary can then correctly include in the minutes) requesting that the incorrect minutes be corrected and get it ON THE RECORD that you were NOT at the meeting and any reference to your participation, including any "report" that you gave, was either a TYPO (she included the WRONG person's name) or whatever else the want to attribute it to.

It might help if you could be sure to get someone ahead of time to make sure the motion is seconded!

It is absolutely imperative that any major inaccuracies be corrected. I'm less concerned with "style" as some people have weird reasons why they do things, than I am with accuracy.

Unintentional mistakes (typos, etc) happen all the time and we often have motions at subsequent meetings to "clarify" or "clean up" typos that were missed on a previous month's minutes.

However, we are very "anal" about making sure we have certain "little" things correct, like who was there, who motioned what, who reported what, etc.

As Susan said, you have no idea what may or may not end up being relevant in a court proceeding. If your minutes are found "defective" then your credibility will be questioned. Even if the error is not in itself a material point, the fact that you have minutes that inaccurately record who was there and who made what reports can call into question any other positions you hold or maintain as 'accurate.'

Why do that (put your board into that position) if you can correct it?

SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366

Posted:

from my dictionary: Anal = pertaining to, involving, or near the anus. Is that what you guys meant ??

WilliamT2 (Texas)
Posts: 8

Posted:

The minutes generally reflect the actions and decisions of the BOD, not comments made by individuals.

What your describing (or desiring) sounds more like transcripts than minutes.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

No Susanna,

The meaning intended being "a group of personality traits including meticulousness".

To be anal means that you expect those doing things to do them to the best of their ability.

Dana

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Susanna,
Try this:
: of, relating to, or characterized by personality traits (as parsimony and ill humor) considered typical of fixation at the anal stage of development.

But come to think of it "selfcentered" might work. Like the Bullseye in the target of your butt or anyone's butt.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Robert, I considered you to be a type a sort of individual but I didn't consider you selfcentered.

Dana

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Dana,
Thank God..............I think. Whatever you meant.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SusannaM on 12/16/2008 3:46 PM
from my dictionary: Anal = pertaining to, involving, or near the anus. Is that what you guys meant ??

Not really. Used in the way above is just a short-cut way of saying "anal retentive."

"A popular term for “anal retentive personality,” a personality marked by excessive orderliness, extreme meticulousness, orderliness, meanness, stubbornness, compulsiveness, etc. and often suspicion and reserve. According to psychoanalysis, an anal personality is formed in early childhood as a result of efforts to control bowel movements. "

This sort of implies a person who is uber-obsessive about crossing Ts and dotting Is. Sort of the polar opposite of a laid-back, disorderly personality.

Most people who call other people (especially friends) anal are usually anal themselves and do it in a way that sort of nods to self-deprication.

But if you prefer your definition . . .

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

You people have me laughing............ I really didn't expect my simple comment to be played out this way. Is everyone just bored? :-)

Dana

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DanaB1 on 12/16/2008 6:44 PM
You people have me laughing............ I really didn't expect my simple comment to be played out this way. Is everyone just bored? :-)

Dana

Naw.

Well.

Okay.

Yes!

I thought it was funny and affectionate to cite her as anal!

I'm pretty laid back (sloppy, messy, disorderly) about most my personal stuff, but I'm very anal about the HOA stuff!

The last thing *I* want is to have a mistake come back and bite me "near the anus"!!

{{snicker}}

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Michele,
Is poor minutes note taking a parsiminous act?

I am going to find a post that I can apply to using the word "parsimony." Something like "Why did the Board allow the secretary cut down her parsimony tree". Or is that persimmon tree? I will just reply it was an anal act.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 12/16/2008 7:52 PM
Michele,
Is poor minutes note taking a parsiminous act?

On the contrary, poor minutes note taking would probably be the opposite of parsimony. After all, parsimony is the ultimate in frugality.

Parsimony embraces the concept or the idea that "less is more," which, if applied to taking minutes, is the more appropriate way of doing it. Only the facts, as few words as needed to state who, what, when, where, how, don't need to get into why at all. No adjectives, adverbs or embellishments.

Frugal and stingy with words.

The opposite, a poor minute taker, would then conversely be liberal, lavish, and copious in their note/minute taking.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Look at all the fun Donna is missing. I pity her.

WilliamT2 (Texas)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Is this an HOA/Condo discussion forum or a chat room?

After a few replies these threads go off topic and are of little relevance.

The personal comments between regulars should be given its own place here so others don't have to wade through it in pursuit of help or relevant information.

Most forums have moderators. Are there any here?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

::sigh::

always a spoil sport party pooper.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Yes, WilliamT there are moderators here....HOATalk monitors everything. They make certain that anything that is vulgar, discriminating or "advertising" is removed.

You will note that all the initial responses are professional, insightful, helpful and vital to answering the original poster's question. Sure we get a bit off track at times. But we all rely on everyone's replies for support and a bit of "levity" to help us get through our volunteer jobs.

We, as board members, take abuse and stress, day in and day out. It helps to read that others also have the same problems but can give us a laugh now and then.

Sure, we "chat" now and then; but it doesn't downplay the seriousness of the original question. Personally I enjoy these "diversions" on occasion and I hope you'll someday join us in our "fun" comments.

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