Suing the HOA board

Started by CharlesA1 • 189 replies • 25899 views

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CharlesA1 (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I recently sent my hoa property manager and board a demand letter for documents as allowed under florida law. i sent them via registered mail, and according to my understanding of florida law, since they have not responded I can sue them for 50$ per day for up to 10 days (500$). I wanted some advice and input on if my letter was sufficient and I am correct in my reasoning. Here's a link with some of the information I read on this and below is the letter i sent them. Any comments would greatly be appreciated! (i left out the names)

http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecdocsFL.html#10-day

____ ____
Community Association Manager
____ _______
& ____ ________ Board of Directors
2180 West SR 434 Suite 5000
Longwood, FL 32779
Dear ____ and the Board:
I am writing in response to recently received notices of violation of deed restrictions dated October 30, 2008. I received three notices: the first was a warning stating I need to pressure wash or chemically clean my driveway, the second was a warning saying I need to treat my lawn for weeds and fertilize it, and the third was a second notice stating I need to replace areas of dead sod. I would like to address each individually.
Pressure Washing
While I concede my driveway has not been pressure washed in a few years, and would likely look better if done (as many others in the neighborhood), and I have planned on doing this in the near future, I do not believe there is anything in the deed restrictions or restrictive covenants or any other published documents stating any rules regarding such required activity (this is more of a “nice-to-have” in my opinion). Therefore I do not feel it is within the board’s power to demand such action be taken. If you believe it is, please direct me to such rules. You cannot enforce rules that are not documented.
Weeds and Fertilization
As stated above, there is nothing in the deed restrictions or covenants that refers to yard maintenance, fertilization requirements, or other similar activities. However, I do take care of my yard and do hire a company to fertilize my yard, as well as do so myself. I have enclosed photographs of my yard taken today. While it certainly isn’t as green as it is in the spring or summer (some browning is natural in the fall and winter), it is certainly not in any shape to merit official violation letters sent by the Homeowner’s association. Coincidentally, I just applied fertilizer to my yard this week, so that would meet your request and should close out that issue. As for the weeds, I do not have any weeds in my yard, as evidenced by the photos, so that issue should also be closed out as well. If you disagree and believe I do have weeds in my yard, please provide more detail on the location and nature of these weeds and I will be happy to take care of them, but cannot fix a problem I do not see.
Areas of Dead Sod
As already stated, nowhere in the deed restrictions or covenants does it refer to yard maintenance of any kind. I routinely replace any areas of dead sod I see in my yard if I believe they are beyond the point of recuperation. As part of preparation for fall/winter I have recently done so, and again will reference the attached photos as documentation to this fact. If you still believe there is an area in specific you have an issue with, please give me more detail, as again I do not see the problem and consider this issue closed as well.
I would also like to take this opportunity to implore the working professionals at ______ to please help us homeowners in the ___ community from a runaway and out of control Board of Directors. As evidenced by recent policies, actions, and statements in written communications regarding parking rules and pool access changes, they are clearly and overtly practicing discrimination. I ask that those at _____ please make sure the Board of Directors follows the letter of the law, and do not aid them in their biased agenda. I am counting on your expertise to guide them in what they can and cannot legally do. After all, this is what you do best, and this is why we have hired you. I would also like to point out that violation letters are sent out and signed by you, so you are the one validating and corroborating their claims.
I know that section 30 of the Restrictive Covenants allows for additional rules and regulations. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that if additional rules were to be added, by Florida statute they would have to be voted on by the entire community and would then have to be actually documented and provided to each owner. I don’t mind following rules if I have agreed to them before moving in, or even if I am allowed to vote on them and have been provided them at some point in time. However, saying I’m in violation of a rule because I have not pressure washed my driveway for example, is simply not true. No such rule to my knowledge exists anywhere in writing. If there have been additional rules added, then I would like a copy, as that seems only reasonable.

In conclusion, under section 720.303 of Chapter 720 of the Florida Statutes, I hereby request a copy of the following official records:
• 720.303 (4) (b) - A copy of each amendment made to the bylaws of the association
• 720.303 (4) (d) - A copy of each amendment made to the declaration of covenants
• 720.303 (4) (e) - A copy of the current rules of the homeowner’s association
• 720.303 (4) (g) - A current roster of all members and their mailing addresses and parcel identifications

As I am sure you are aware, the Association has ten (10) days to provide these documents.
Thank you for your attention and concern in this matter

Regards,

MikeF4 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Why not call the property manager or one of the board members and speak to them nicely? Dont take the same tone on the phone that your letter had and you will very likely make some progress in what you seek. =) Good luck.

www.silveradohoa.com

CharlesA1 (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I have begged and pleaded to get the property manager or the board to give me a list of the hoa rules to which they sent out violation letters, because the violations are never anything that is written in the covenants. i have done so in person, email, and in letters. they refuse to give me any type of written rules. their answer is they can basically enforce any rules they choose (even if they aren't documented). I'm pretty sure that is not correct. So I'm willing to take this to the next step now, legal action, to get the rules they are trying to enforce. And if they don't have rules, they shouldn't be telling me I broke them.

My question really is will this letter hold up in small claims court if i sue them for the 500$ as florida statutes say i can? It seems cut and dry to me but i would like to get some input by people know know about these laws a little better than myself.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

If you don't have copies of the by-laws, covenants, etc you can obtain them from the courthouse. Rules can be made but they cannot conflict with the covenants. Good luck!

JimM7 (Florida)
Posts: 71

Posted:

Hi folks.....

In Florida the association MUST furnish all property owners a copy of the following documents WITHOUT CHARGE:

Atricle of Incorperation
Covenants
Bylaws
Rules and Regulations

They can charge (whatever the controlling documents say) for copies of other ducuments.

Florida Statute 720.303 is specific.

God luck

Jim

JimM7 (Florida)
Posts: 71

Posted:

Excuse the spelling...I am in a hurry

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Charles,

With regard to the two violations letters you received which you say are for violations not written in the covenants or rules of the assn. Many assn's have a restriction which says the members yard/lot must be maintained to present a neat and clean appearance, free of trash and weeds, etc. -- or something to that effect. If you have such a restriction, then it may apply to the 2 violation notices you received. Just because the cleanliness of the driveway or the condition of the grass and the appearance of weeds is not explicitly addressed doesn't mean these issues cannot be a violation.

CharlesA1 (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 12/11/2008 4:12 PM
Charles,

With regard to the two violations letters you received which you say are for violations not written in the covenants or rules of the assn. Many assn's have a restriction which says the members yard/lot must be maintained to present a neat and clean appearance, free of trash and weeds, etc. -- or something to that effect. If you have such a restriction, then it may apply to the 2 violation notices you received. Just because the cleanliness of the driveway or the condition of the grass and the appearance of weeds is not explicitly addressed doesn't mean these issues cannot be a violation.

well they don't actually have that. there's actually no mention of lawn maintenance or yard appearance at all. they do mention trash but thats really not related. there is some generic statement about the hoa can add rules or something. but its my understanding this means they can officialy create new rules and document them and then enforce them. it doesn't mean they can just say oh today you have to pressure wash your driveway. thats what i've asked for all amendments and rules and regulations. i want to see if this is documented anywhere. of course, i know some board members don't have to follow these rules at all, thats why i want to know the roster of board members as well so that i can compare their enforcement. everything i've asked for, florida statute says they have to give me within 10 days of written request or i can sue for 50$ a day for up to 10 days after the 10 day deadline. well its been past that, and i'm ready to sue them over this, i just want to make sure my request was sufficient to hold up in court that they have not provided me with what they legally have to.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Charles - one thing at a time!

Your letter is TOO long and is difficult to figure out just WHAT the main point is.

YES - send the letter and site the fine for non-compliance on their part ---

but make it ONE short paragraph request for the documents you want.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Charles,
Try this to save some cash. See if you can call a lawyers office and ask if they will write a letter asking for the information you desire. A letter coming from a Lawyer that you paid for on their letterhead will sometime cause the Board to react differently. If this is non productive and you are stll disatisfied, by all means take the next step, which may not be Legal action. Do you have counties or some such, or city restrictions if you are inside city limits? If so take your problem to your local representative and then to county, then to state. Get any help they offer and document each action and copy Board a short progress report. Something will ring a bell somewhere and they are likely to try a different approach or contact you with a compromise (always a win for a homeowner in an association and with a good board a doable action).

BillG6 (Florida)
Posts: 41

Posted:

I would have to agree with the letter length. Construct a letter that has a few quick bullets and what you are REALLY looking for and/or wanting and that's it. Too much readng and you'll loose their attention.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Your letter is fine. You have every right to access to the records, DO NOT TOLERATE any atttempt to prevent you from them.

These HOAs and their "service providers" hate disclosure, transparency and especially homeowners who think they can excercise their rights under the law.

Give em hell!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

This is an old post. Look at the time stamp on top. It's from 2008.

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Yes, but this is a common problem. Folks will view this post when they search for help with HOA boards that defy the law, an all too common problem.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

True. But laws change and what was good advice in 2008 may be bad advice in 2013.
This is why it's best to start a new topic vs. reactivating an old one.

Personally, I'd like to see the moderators mark threads over 3-6 months old as read only.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So now it comes to responding to posts from 4 years ago directing your comments to people who no longer visit this site.

As if this comment matters.

Not hard to figure out Mike has a bone to pick with HIS HOA. Now that has spread to ALL HOAs.

Currently, I believe Mike infomred us he is taking his HOA to court and representing himself because I beleive the quote was "they spit on the Constitution."

Now I found an article which referenced another Mike who sued his HOA in Mass. and lost. I asked Mike before if that was in fact him. He failed to respond.

So when you are looking for issues dig up issues from 4 years if you have to and then claim they require YOUR response today.

But when you wish to support YOUR belief system anything is fair game.

All to prove your point that EVERY HOA is problematic despite having no
firsthand knowledge of any other HOA but yours.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Funny how you always miss the point. HOAs routinely violate the law by not providing records that are demanded from them.

I have seen this same complaint dozens of times.

Suing them in court is about the only recourse available when they just blow you off regarding a duty required by law.

And when you do sue them, the association attorney goes ca-ching! Win lose or draw those clowns ALWAYS win.

Yet you complain about someone who says....this is crazy...this is a disgrace...

Why?

The answer is obvious, because you must be one of the guys running an association.

With no knowledge of the law or your responsibilities under them, with an association attorney telling you "blow them off! what are they going to do sue?"

What a digusting little system these HOAs are

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR15 on 01/05/2013 9:53 AM
Funny how you always miss the point. HOAs routinely violate the law by not providing records that are demanded from them.

I have seen this same complaint dozens of times.

Suing them in court is about the only recourse available when they just blow you off regarding a duty required by law.

And when you do sue them, the association attorney goes ca-ching! Win lose or draw those clowns ALWAYS win.

Yet you complain about someone who says....this is crazy...this is a disgrace...

Why?

The answer is obvious, because you must be one of the guys running an association.

With no knowledge of the law or your responsibilities under them, with an association attorney telling you "blow them off! what are they going to do sue?"

What a digusting little system these HOAs are

Mike I hold out no real hope you will ever change your point of view. Now the only purpose is to use you as a learning tool for others who come here to a site for HOA volunteer leaders, and then continue to rant about the eveils of ALL HOAs. Sounds a bit extreme and out of touch with reality to me.

Bringing a lawsuit is NOT the only way. It is the way you have decided to follow. Speaking of lawsuits just what were the other lawsuits you brought against your HOA about? Care to share? And I just have to wonder why one of those lawyers you used removed himself from your case. Afterall wasn't he being paid? You know that ChaChing theory you pass off why didin't it work in your case? So you now act as your own counsel because you can't find a lawyer to take your case.

I don't complain about you fact are what you do doesn't affect me one little bit. That's the sky parks problem. What I do take issue with, and this goes back to using you as a learning tool nothing more. People like you but into an HOA come to the conclusion things are not done properly according to your wants and needs, refuse to act in a manner within the guidelines and rules because no one else sees things quite your way, then you head to the courts to support your views. All the time costing your own property and neighbors $$$$$$ those same neighbors you claimed to care for but the truth you don't give a crap about them other than they agree with you. My guess few do.

So three lawsuits down and the 4th ongoing. And if you win what then?
Do you get a little gold star or simply a pat on the back.

Yes Mike I am the President of the HOA in which I live. WHEN YOU COME TO A SITE FOR HOA BOARD MEMBERS AND VOLUNTEERS GOOD, WILD GUESS ON YOUR PART! Imagine most people here serve on their Boards but you preach hear about the evils of HOAs and expect a different reception??? I removed a group of people who were not acting in a manner serving the property. I have served on the Board for more than 25 years and unlike you the other owners support my efforts. That's why you use the courts because the other owners would never support your efforts so now they becmoe a problem too. Besides you Mike who else is worth a darn? If and when they don't agree with you?

And yes people do take HOAs to court. We have been sued 4 times by people like you who see the world just one way, THEIR way. In the end all 4 suits were defended and we prevailed in all 4. Must be the courts huh?

And you have reached number 4.

And finally Mike I have to make one observation. On many of your posts, blogs, articles you CLAIM raising your family is concern number 1 for you. Just how does this long term ongoing battle serve your family? How does it serve your family living in a property where at least some folks might harbour resentment towards their Father and Mother ( as she is listed in all 4 of the suits also)? Is being right all that important to you? Is fighting to set the world up as you see it worth doing harm to your own family or wasting precious time with the ones you claim to value?

Some fights are not worth everything. The one HOA you reside ion is not worth the price you seem to be paying. Your attitude, anger, hatred come through quite clearly. You have allowed this to take your life over.

But when you make it about ALL HOAs, when that is simply not reality and about protecting the Constitution which is quite a stretch or about you personal "civil rights movement" which IMO is a joke the stakes are just now to hight for you to back down and let it go.

He who turns and walks away lives to fight another day. Right fighters never go without a batole that must be won. You end one and find another.
Sad sad way to live....................

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

We are still very friendly with our attorney who represented us, and oh boy did we pay him every penny billed, like we do every bill we get.

We exhausted every remedy available to us. The District Attorney, the Attorney General, the Consumer Assistance Council...even our State Representative who proposed a bill that would require a majority of residents approve any change to the Governing documents (boilerplate language in every State except here in MA). The Community Association Institute showed up to contest the bill. Since they are paying our legislators a considerable sum to do what they want...they got the bill sent to "study"...read: oblivian.

So all for nought. Every one of these entitys said the same thing, this is a "private dispute" that can ONLY be settled in court.

There was only 1 lawsuit.

Now there is 2.

And rather than spend another $40,000 for a decision that the Association...before the ink was even dry...violated...

I decided to take this one in hand myself.

We will see how it goes...stay tuned though....it is going to be a doozy!

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

My mother?

My parents retired to Florida years ago. My Dad fought in the Korean War (187th RCT..go airborne!) and was highly decorated and badly wounded. He went on to teach American History for 30 years.

During the last presidential election he put a sign on his lawn promoting one of the candidates. Although there were other signs promoting the other guy....only he recieved a letter threatening fines from his HOA.

OH BOY...big mistake!

My dad (who played and coached college ball) took the letter, went down to the HOA presidents house, crumpled the letter and bounced it off his head.

That little coward has not been heard from since (although I heard he was also under investigation for stealing HOA funds, so he might be a little preoccupied with other problems)

I had my Dad read my pleadings prior to filing them. He gave me some good advice. My dad loves the fact that I am going to administer my own beat down to my pathetic HOA...

Dad says these HOAs disgust him. You have to respect this from a guy who fought for our rights vs. the sniveling cowards who are not even smart enough to know what they are.

My Mom? She was a college professer. She too is smart enough to know a con-artist when she sees one. She is one of the 95% of homeowners who could not be dragged to a rigged HOA meeting with wild horses!

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Mike you mistook my point on the way to disregarding what I asked. I was asking about the cost to your family. Your family your wife and kids. How this might affect them living in a community where some folks might hold a grudge.

How you got to the profile of your Mom and Dad is beyond me.

So you and now your parents all seem to agree HOAs are real hoots. Joking matters that you and the naval officers and ATF agents all laugh about because you all know the truth. Guess you all figured it out after buying in?

Sounds good but I have to ask with all the trouble you have had in Mass. with the lawsuits and all why would you ever buy into another HOA? Since of course none of them are worth a wooden nickel? And now Dad and Mom decide to head to Florida and they too buy into an HOA. Didn't you warn them? Didn't you tell them about the threat they might face to their lives and liberty?

Why not just buy a single family stand alone home all of you????
Mike you really spin some tall tales. Just some of them don' make sense.
I for one have a tough time accepting your version of anything. Seems you fudge the facts on some occasions.

Or just see things in a way that serves your viewpoint.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Yes the navy folks and my wife and I were laughing. The ATF guy...well he was not laughing at all. He was singled out for "special treatment" by the HOA because he was African American. It is just one of the many reasons why I detest these vile things.

My neighbors here are great. They know very little about our lawsuit because the HOA, out of shame or just the instinctual sneeky character these things all seem to have, keeps these things secret.

I sent the HOA "newsletter" (now THAT is an Orwellian distortion of that word) the PDF files of both parties briefs the court will be basing their decision on so they could publish them. This way the interested homeowners could get a birds eye view of both the HOA and our position and the real legal issues involved.

The newsletter of course refused to publish it or link it to their website. They don't want the homeowners to know about the real issues involved. That it reflects poorly on them and exposes their unlawful, reprehensible conduct is the reason I suspect.

It is like dealing with the Soviet Union and their "newsletter" Pravda. They sure were not publishing anything close to the real story about what was going on in that great big cluster #$$@ they had for generations over there.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

As far as what I have seen happen to some of my neighbors? I have not even begun to describe that!

Here is a funny one though.....our CC&Rs say NO DISHES of any type allowed (along with exposed TV antennas ect). The CC&Rs also say NO AMENDMENTS to the CC&Rs that make them LESS RESTRICTIVE.

Got it?

So when I saw a (no exageration) 10' satalite dish go up in the front yard of an HOA board member's home (he broadcasts a radio show for a living) I was in awe!

Then he changes the CC&Rs to allow it.

THEN....he goes after a neighbor he didn't like and used the young familys LAMP POST as an excuse. The family was taken to court and the HOA got $6000 dollars out of them. This of course was decided by default judgment..meaning the family did not hire an attorney for $10,000 or more to defend themselves.

The kicker was that the chairman of the ARC wrote a letter stating that he had APPROVED this house and the HOA had no authority to go after the family.

Well, I guess that isn't so funny is it.

I mean when do we get to the point where we do something about this disgusting HOA thing? When they start loading the "undesirables" in box cars?

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Mike I have said this before to you and will now repeat it for the last time.

Regarding some points I might find myself agreeing with you but it's your black and white thinking and presentation that doesn't sit well with me.

It is not all HOAs if so why is it you can cite just one case in Va. and have to go back 4 years to find a complaint you can address on this sight.

Have you listened to the Farran interview. THEIR suggestion bwefoe you bring legal action exhaust all other options. Find a good lawyer and have plenty of cash.

In that case the association has filed for bankruptcy. The courts have appointed a trustee to oversee the operations of the property. Who pays for that? And it is my understanding the common property is set to be sold to recoup the money awarded to the Farrans.

My question is who would by into that property now?

I reviewed the legal actions listed in Ma. regarding you and your HOA seems it goes all he way back to 2003 and your lawyer withdrew from representing you almost 10 years ago. So this is worth more than 10 years of your life???

You just might have valid points but IMO you have gone way round the bend in your zeal to right a percieved wrong. I hope you keep us posted without having the need to dig up "dirt" on each and every HOA in America because in the end that will have no affect on the outcome of your case. And your coninued blind accusations as to your knowledge about all HOAS when in fact you have none doesn't serve your legal agenda.

It serve no useful purpose but does suggest someone who has lost perspective.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Mike while I have gotten a chuckle out of your posts, I'm afraid they also have my Bravo-Sierra meter pegged into the red. Instead of suing the HOA IMHO I would have sued the owner of the dish for violating the Covenants and I'm sure an HOA expert such as yourself knows that the Board can't change Covenants without a homeowner vote, nor can they change the rules or by-laws to get around the covenants. And how pray tell do you know that only certain people got violation notices? Your dad's sign, could it possibly not been about who it was for but it's size or placement? Keep tilting at windmills Don Quixote I can always use a laugh.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

I should post a picture of this guy's satalite dish. And here in MA there are no laws affecting HOAs. Every change to the documents has been done (and CAN be done) by the board alone.

I stood up at a meeting in 1998 and asked why this is being done, as it is a huge mess with regard to what homeowners think they have agreed to, and undermines our faith in the entire system.

The association attorney told the board to say that that only applys in condominium law(a majority vote of homeowners need to change governing documents) and that...and I quote..."We are a different kind of organization".

The HOA president then told everyone that this would never happen anyway....Which of course was complete BS as the documents have been changed (including the Dish deal) about 10-12 times now.

THEN....when they changed the Governing Documnets to empower themselves to FINE in 2008....they say this is allowed and quote Condominium Laws for support...they actually record in their minutes how they would count ballots they sent out to get approval for this power (apparently they were afraid that a change this substantial would require SOME input from homeowners). They record that they will count a Yes vote for fines....but a NO vote will also be counted as a Yes...

I posted the direct excerpt of those meeting minutes on this site.

That is why I went to my State Representative, Matthew Patrick and he also called BS on that. He proposed a bill that would bring our state up to date with every other state with HOA law and require that ONLY a majority of homeowners can change the documents.

A huge lawfirm in Boston, one that represents over 4,000 CIDs according to their website, is also the New England chapter of the CAI.

They came to the Joint Committee on Housing meeting when I and about a dozen homeowners testified for the bill.
They apparently have a lot of clout with the Committee members and got the bill sent to "study"....that was years ago, it is history.

Are you starting to understand my total disrespect for these oily, carnival con-men board members and these bottom feeding attorneys who "specialize" in HOA law?

Sue the guy for his satalite dish? Sure! Do you have 30-40K dollars I can borrow to do that? Because that is about how much it would cost.

Homeowners have to be much more wise and save for the rainy day, and just in case, the board decides to target YOU for a lamp post, or even pretend that the ARC contract you paid for and built your home in exact accordance to...doesn't exist anymore and comes after you.

Which is my situation in a nutshell BTW.

So you can see why the post "Suing your HOA board" was so attractive to post on for me.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well I see that you really have NOT read any of your own documents. Nor have you seen the multiple posts on here about the FCC rulings about satellite dishes in HOA's. The HOA can NOT restrict satellite dishes in HOA's anymore except for condo's. There is a different law regarding condo's restricting satellite dishes.

I dare say that 99% of the HOA documents in existence to this day have never been updated to reflect the law of satellite dishes nor will most of them ever be. If you read your documents you would then know the reason why it is not necessarily required or needed. The HOA rules can NOT supercede any state, local, or federal laws. The FCC being federal and all means that regardless of what your documents say, they can't be enforced. Same with other rules that fall into that type of catagory.

Once you get a grasp of your own documents and STOP looking outward for your government to step in to change things, you may be a happier person. It's disturbing when people want their state or federal government to step in to run their everyday lives. If you understood an HOA, you would know that it allows for the owners to create and live under their own rules. Sad you want more government in your life to make you happy...

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

This is not the dish the FCC is talking about. This a dish designed specifically for radio transmission and does not qualify for the FCC exemption. It is much more similar to the Ham radio attennas...NOT covered by the FCC exemption and a huge concern for Ham operators in HOAs.

This dish is 10' and sits in the guys front yard for crip sake!

Not to mention the prohibition on home business...he is broadcasting from his home!

But thanks for the observation, because if someone were stupid enough to sue the guy that is exactly the argument he (paid for with homeowner money) would raise through the association attorney.

But believe me, homeowners are disgusted with this blatent abuse of board power to get this done.

And to add insult to injury this guy had the board sue another member because he didn't like his lamp post.

What he REALLY didn't like was that this guy was not a pilot, AND he built a nicer home right next door to another HOA president.

Before they sued the guy, they sent another nonsense vote to homeowners. 14 homeowners said "leave this family alone!"

3 said "sue him"

Guess what value that vote had?

But I just love the obtuse responses these situations get. It is like landing in an alternative universe where no one even know right from wrong.

Board power seems to make ANYTHING right.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You have problems...You give people the power over you YOU want them to have...You give your board the power. So all I have to say is this is all your own fault. Quit complaining...

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Nope...I just took my "complaint" to court(see above thread title).

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You should take a look at my new topic of the effect of lawsuits on your HOA. The reality of what it means. Not what is in your head. Deny it all you want and rationalize all you can...You just sued yourself and your neighors...There's just no winners in any of it...To quote Charlie Sheen "Winning"...

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Utter nonsense.

If I prevail, like the Farrans, and drasticaly reduce the board's power and even hold them financially responsible on a personal level for their wrongdoing....everyone wins!

If I get Fines outlawed in the State of Massachusetts, as they are in Virginia, tens of thousands of homeowners win!

What is this little private governance that thinks it can take governemental power anyway?

Would you let Fidel Castro set up his own crooked, tyranny in any part of the US?

Of course not!

Why should we allow the same kind of government, with no checks and balances, no oversight of elections, meetings, votes no free press and their own un-impartial "courts" have authority over our pocketbooks and homes?

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

And as far as "complaining" about this tin pot pathetic system that is wrecking my community and harming my neighbors...

To paraphrase John Paul Jones...I have not yet BEGUN to complain!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

To quote Samuel Clemens: "It is better to have people THINK you are stupid...than open up your mouth and prove it..."

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Franky my dear (Rhett Butler)...an accurate response.

Mean spirited of course, personally insulting certainly...and exactly how you handled your HOA meetings when you were President no doubt.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

And without a doubt you ascribe to the "Homeowner Apathy" syndrome the fact that NOBODY in the HOA shows up to witness that kind of vile conduct at those meetings.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I was going to post about how successfully my HOA was and that we had a waiting list for people to buy homes. It's just going to fall on deaf ears as you have no concept at all of what a HOA truly is. Your that guy who is like the chicken screaming the "sky is falling" and wonder why people look at you like your stoned. Gee I wonder why no one ever consider you for a board position? Because people elect people who most reflect their opinions when they don't want to do the job themselves. I can't imagine you would represent anyone respectively enough except for yourself. Being on the HOA board means NOT thinking of yourself and your needs. It's the needs of the others and the whole. You don't have that kind of spirit or skills it takes.

It is beyond obvious you have NEVER once read your own HOA rules. You living in a forrest and hollering about there being too many trees...Those trees my friends makes up that forrest and your one of those trees NOT the forrest...

So when you lose your latest lawsuit for whatever it is for, and lick your wounds before finding something to sue about, you just damaged your home resale values and will only punish yourself in the end. Gee who you going to sue when you can't sell your house? Mmm...The power hungry board of course who should have not wasted money on all these lawsuits...

Read your documents and get out of your forrest... Once you can post something based in REALITY and comes from your documents...Maybe some of us may consider responding to you... Otherwise I am done.

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

I state specific instances where my neigbors were unfairly harrassed often based on race, financially damaged and made miserable in their own homes, and where board members take extreme advantage, not to mention persecute homeowners at will...and you write all of the weird stuff about trees and whatever...

It is that obtuse refusal to see the pathology that really makes me wonder what the REAL pathology is here.

I think the pathology is what Orwell talks about in 1984. Power.

Power always seeks more power, for the sake of power alone (no matter how pathetic and small).

How else can you explain this blindness to a situation that steals from us in epidemic proportion, strips from us our rights regarding something as fundemental as property, subjects us to a system of governance found in some pathetic banana republic, finds Americans scratching at their fellow American's rights like rabid cats....

And board members, who enjoy this power, screaming that you "agreed to it" or don't look behind the curtain or....some nonsense about trees?

In any case, lets see what the courts actually say about it all. You know....an impartial tribunal dedicated to upholding and enforcing the law and the Constitution of the US.

Obviously at this point, that is the only place I trust to have any integrity, and to make any valid decision about my property.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

"In any case, lets see what the courts actually say about it all. You know....an impartial tribunal dedicated to upholding and enforcing the law and the Constitution of the US."

"Obviously at this point, that is the only place I trust to have any integrity, and to make any valid decision about my property."

Mike you have go to be kidding right? The courts impartial????? So you beleive that crap about the courts being blind and fair???

You might be in for a shock. I have seen many people walk into the court house certain they were 1000% right and in he end they lost. And in some cases they were in fact right!

Seems with all your quoing of the Constitution you might be one of those anti- big-governement believers. Get the governement our of my life and all but then you look to the government to resolve your issues.

Most governments a any level have a tough time today handling the minimum required of them. Many are broke but we have folks seeking MORE involvement to serve their agendas.

So my question remains Mike what's the plan if and when you fail in court this time? And if you win tell us all just what the prize for you will be??? To prove a point? To damage the property in which you live?
To reduce property values? Just what will you be getting????

And this has been worth a 10 year fight????

Anyone who puts their faith in our legal sysem is a fool. IMO it is corrupted, bought off, and rigged. Right an wrong don't matter it's who and what you know.

Let us know how your crusade works out for you...............

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

That is cynical. Our system of government is the best in the world. If it fails, as it often does...what does that tell you about all the other systems?

Winston Churchill said, Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the others.

I am more than happy to take my chances in court. I have faith that this is the best shot any of us has when looking for justice.

I am doing it myself, because the shear volume of cases before the court these days...well your presentation to the court had better be laser focused and clear.

Something that was fairly lacking in our last effort.

I am excited about the outcome. I put the issue of these private entitys being allowed to excercise a governmental power and fining citizens squarely before the court. They should have ample information to say yes or no to this power.

So lets wait and see what they do!

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Mike:

Seems there are some holes in the claims you have made.
In one post you scream to high heaven that MILLIONS of Americans see ALL HOAs as evil and agree wih your views.

Then you post the following"

"They came to the Joint Committee on Housing meeting when I and about a dozen homeowners testified for the bill.
They apparently have a lot of clout with the Committee members and got the bill sent to "study"....that was years ago, it is history."

"Are you starting to understand my total disrespect for these oily, carnival con-men board members and these bottom feeding attorneys who "specialize" in HOA law?"

So what was it Mike "about a dozen" was that a baker's dozen or maybe less than 10 or about how many? So out of the enire state of Ma. your cause was able to pull together almost a dozen people. Quite a limited represenation after you claimed to have MILLIONS seeing the world your way.

Just how many folks from YOUR property appeared supporting YOU??? Any??

Mike you come here bragging about your plans to neuter every HOA in the state of Ma. You come proudly proclaiming how you intend to represent yourself to protect life, liberty and US Constitution. But you leave out he part where this is in fact your second bite at the apple you sued and lost once already. But you can't allow yourself to dwell on that failure and certainly can't provide the complete stroy as it might damage your credibility.

Now on the Farrans those folks you seem to wish to pattern your life after. The Board it seems filed bankruptcy. The property is in trustee control. Who do you hink might be paying for that? They are selling the propery's "common elements" to satisfy the court judgement. Is that a good thing? So just how is this your version of a happy ending?

Now the Farrans had two interesting suggestions to like minded folks. Never make your attacks personal. Which you have clearly violated over and over again. And you never want to come off as a "nut job" never write, speak, engage in conversations regarding pending litigation.

Any first year law stutdent would advise their clients so. But as you represent yourself pro se guess you never got that simple advice. So the lessons learned from the Farrans you have failed to learn from.

Tin hat......, spit in the face of the Constituion, life and liberty, like fighting for the civil rights movement, same words over and over again like a broken record.

"You never want to come across as some sort of nut job." S0peaking for myself you crossed that line by quite a ways...........

You and that "about a dozen" like minded folks. But why live in reality when your own little world gives you support to be right?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

JonD, Mike suffers from what I call "Hero" identity disorder. They fight for the little guy! That neighbor down the street who's HOA told them to take down that political sign in their yard even though it is their family running for office. How dare they! Mike would NEVER look at the CCR's of the association to see the FACT that ONLY signs of "For Sale/Rent" are allowed.

Oh no the HOa just took away the consitutional rights of their neighbor and they will do it to you unless your on the board of course. Since we know the BOD is above their own rules even though they too are owners and members. Who by the way are entrusted to make sure those who break the rules enforce such rules. Otherwise it is ALL selective enforcent.

See NOTHING monetary or damage wise has happened to Mike directly. It is always to someone else who he's heard enough of their wo's and atrocities. He has got to "protect" them and be the big hero who will never be trusted to be on the BOD.

So he will sue just because of his beliefs and atrocities that happen to people every day in HOA's. Irregardless IF indeed the person truly was guilty of the rule violation. Plus the fact the person responsible for bringing a suit would be the persons dirctly effected. Which Mike doesn't get why they don't sue...Maybe because they know they would lose and rather whine to a guy like Mike...

All hail the Hero Mike...He's going to save our HOA's by forcing more rules he's yet to even read or grasp...

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

I am suing my HOA because they have repudiated the ARC we relied upon when we built our home.

Technically, they are really screwed. They owe us a substantial amount of damages which is also part of the lawsuit.

They invented the power to fine, then threatened us with them.. and this issue is included in our lawsuit as well.

As far as what they have done to others...well it is just a predictable pattern of conduct for this outfit. That it sickens and disgusts me...especialy when my elderly neighbors are victomized, I certainly admit that it does.

I don't know about "hero" disorder or whatever it is you are talking about.

But I do know that I am chaffing at the bit to administer a very large legal "smack down" to this place.

I also hope to go after the board members personally, and ruin their financial day, as they have attempted to do to my wife and I.

What comes around goes around.

Surely you know this fundemental truth. You can portray this any way you like, but if you screw your neighbors because you think you can get away with it...egged on by some scum of the earth association attorney stuffing his pockets with our money....watch your back. Your neighbors will not miss the opportunity to deliever a kick to your head (figurativly of course) if they ever have the chance.

One of the wonderful aspects of HOA living where neighbors elevate themselves in power over their neighbors...and then flaunt the law to abuse their neighbors with it.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Considering that REALITY the HOA board you so want to sue PERSONAL assets are PROTECTED and can NOT be touched may throw a wrench into your suit. See the judge will see that the BOARD members were acting as board members in the operation of the HOA. Something the insurance pays for. It is something that ALL corporations have NOT just HOA's.

So basically your suing yourself and the other members. The money for your lawsuit for them to defend themselves comes from your dues money cololected. That funny rule of a HOA is ONLY funded by it's members. So your BOD is using a portion of your money to pay their lawyer to represent them in court against you.

Stop paying your dues? Well then they can LIEN or then foreclose on you. So you have to keep paying so you can see them in court. Sale? Well then your no longer a member and have no rights to sue.

IF you read your documents a HOa does and always has had the right to levy fines. It is in the documentation. they can charge interest and their legal costs upon you as well.

So because you did NOT read your own rules, your finding yourself losing in court and devaluing your property. Piric victory indeed...

Oh and the ACC the board can overturn their decisions...FACT...Go look it up...You do know where right? The documents are PUBLIC...

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Board members easily have their corporate immunity stripped away, and their insurance co.s running for the door.

If they are found by a court to act "ultra vires" or otherwise illegally, than all protections go poof.

And then they find THIER equity in their homes, and THEIR money in their bank accounts go poof as well.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

No they can't have it easily removed. Where did you hear that? Your head or some fancy lawyer? Which by the way to strip them of their protection would then require yet another court case to do it. They are NOT going to do all of it in one case with your lawsuit alone. Plus their insurance and equity in their houses are NOT going anywhere. Wishful thinking there. Insurance isn't going to leave a paying customer and who isn't wrong. Equity in a house won't go nowhere cause they ain't selling their home. The re-sale value of their homes may drop because of your suit. However, yours just did the SAME amount. Really really delusional thinking...NOT reality...

By the way, your elderly neighbors...Will they be okay with you telling them they have to pay more on their dues or face an expensive special assessment because of your lawsuit? Will they be okay on their fixed incomes to pay more money each month? Will it also be okay when they pass on that their kid's inheretence is now knocked down in value and may not sale? You do realize they have equity in their homes which you would have destroyed if you think that you can effect someone's house equity.

Really did you think past your nose? No. You didn't even look at your own documents! It's just an all out shame of what you are doing to your neighbors. God said love thy neighbor...You obviously don't.

Former HOA President

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

You need to read the D&O policy for HOA board members. If a board member is found to act ultra vires or illegally, then the isurance co. has no duty to defend.

They walk away.

That is a standard disclaimer on these policys.

The civil courts find this all the time.

As far as your other legal observations...they "do not merit discussion" (another boilerplate judicial finding when the court reads twisted uninformed nonsense).

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

As far as the equity in our home. It specializes property sold to pilots. If you read any pilot blog they talk about the "Airport Nazis" here.

I could probably sell my house for twice what I could get today, if this HOA were destroyed.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Mike simply seems incapable of considering any other possibility but success. Simple, Mike goes to court acting as his own lawyer, Mike wins on all counts and walks away with not only complete victory but the assets and homes of the Board members. Wonder when, where and if that has EVER occured. Not in his first lawsuit.

Now the case in Va. Mike lives to cite seems the Board filed for bankruptcy and now the Board's(property's) only assets were to be sold off that being the "common elements". Now who would buy those and what they might be worth is beyond me. Not sure what the lawn area between our buildings might be worth on the open market.

The Board members did not file bankruptcy, they did no lose their homes or assets. And according to what I read they in fact directly violated the CCRs of that property.

I too noticed the double talk Mike likes to pass off as reality. His concern for his neighbors. Then I have read quote after quote where he expresses the stand he doesn't care about them or what they think. So is he doing God's work protecting those who Mike would have us believe can't stand up for themselves or is Mike just using that BS as justification for his actions. I go with #2.

Mike seems to be a typical limited thinker who sees everything as us versus them. You are either with Mike or you are the enemy. You either work with Mike or you become part of Mike's problem.

So lets see for Mike this has been going on for almost 10 years. So after 10 years and at least $40,000 in legal expenses from his "friend" the lawyer (who unlike the HOA scum took every cent of his money and they lost the case in the end) then his lawyer for some reason withdrew from Mike's case ( never a good sign) now you file a second suit and decide who better to argue the case but you.

Now this time you think, hope, would like to, all terms spoken by someone unfamiliar with the law. Now I might know because I was sued as an individual while serving as Board President. Another yo-yo who made up the law as they went and had a lawyer willing to do anything as long as he was paid. The court's FIRST action was to dismiss that portion of the claim. So I am not licensed in Ma. to practice law, neither is Mike, but when we went to court we had a better understanding of hope, would like to, plan to,take their homes and assets.

On a side note I carry a personal liability policy to protect my assets my guess Mike his no idea about the Board members he plans to ruin.

Most time what might be argued is legal expenses as a pro se plaintiff what legal expenses could Mike prove? And those from the prior suit can't be claimed this time around.

I listend to the full one hour audio interview with Mike's idols the Farrans. They in fact prevailed. The Board is bankrupt, (That would equal the property being bankrupt), the property is under the control of a trustee. What cost to the property does that result in? The common elements are to be sold. I just wonder how that might have affected the property. Would you buy into this community? Who will carry the insurance? Who will do maintenance work? Or is everyone now on their own.
And like Mike seems to have planned in the event someone acts in a manner in violation of rules and regs. this property now has no authority to levy fines. As Board members how do you think this might affect your own properties? Guess you have to hope eveyone just lives up to expectations.

I also listened carefully when the Farrans were asked if they were "made whole". Legal speak for did they recoup the cost of their lawsuits. Did they break even??(They too filed more than one lawsuit.) After some dancing around the response in fact NO. Now like Mike they were unwilling to give details as that might damage the appearance that they had won a complete and full victory.

So it would seem the Farrans like Mike don't like to give details. Are the Board members homeless? NO. Are the property owners better off? I just have to wonder where they might get insurance, how they might pay for it, and how those who bought into an HOA feel about being left solely responsible for the ownership and operation of their property?
I know it would not sit very well with people here. How about that poor 92 year old lady in Ma. Guess she might have to get a litle more involved.

And in the end Mike will ride off into the sunset unwilling to get involved just ready to sue the property he lives in and end it there.
If he wins he can sit back and pound his chest about how he fought the system and won. A regular Dr. Martin Luthur King. And if and when he loses #2 he can pass himself off as a martyr. Maybe those dozen or so folks might put up a monument.

As we have few details as to the particulars of Mike's case impossible to judge whether he might have merit or not. My guess Mike will get a lot less than he is looking for in terms of revenge on the Board members or state wide reform.

Over the years I have dealt with and met many folks like Mike. Strong opinions with no ability to see outside their own views. Clear cut proof for me being the repeated chants over and over again designed to support his views. Tin hat, liberty, spiting in the face of the Constitution, loss of life, civil rights movement, all designed to give his beliefs
legitimacy in any argument. If you are fighting for life and liberty how could you ever be wrong. During my life when folks have held the winning hand many have no need to do the victory dance prior to the game being over. If you have true confidence in your cause sit back and wait. Mike can't hold back (wonder how he dealt with the decision when he lost?) Mike NEEDS to preach. Mike needs to convince. Mike needs to spread the word even when no one seems to be listening. In that case Mike imagines MILLIONS see it his way when "about a dozen" show up to support him.
Mike is simply BLIND to the reality MILLIONS do0es not equal "about a dozen".

Judging from the response he has gotten here how many opinions has he swayed? How many people see it Mike's way?? But Mike needs to come back here, defend his viewpoints and hang on to the HOPE he prevails. Zealots do that. Zealots see no other views. Zealots die on their swords.

Truth is Mike knows he will not change many minds here, truth is Mike needs to keep convincing himself he is right. Truth is deep down Mike doubts himself and his beliefs hence all the chants and repetition. They accomplish little else.

You don't do the dance before the game is over, you don't do the dance till the hand is won, you don't pat yourself on the back till you've won something. And you don't try to pass off failure as success, selfishness as community service or the belief systems of a zealot as fact.

Are there bad out of control HOAs sure there are. Among the thousands to say otherwise would be stupidity. But the claim that Mike has pushed that ALL HOAs are bad, all Board members are to be destroyed and Mike has any idea of what he speaks of is also stupidity.

I wish Mike good luck hopefully he has more real purpose and things of value than this............

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