Liens against HOA

If "we" have a lein . .

Do you mean "If there is a lein . . ."

No, your homes are yours. The lein may however, affect common grounds or amenities currently still owned by the Developer.

Mike,
Agree with Donna, what is this about?

If it is a Mechanics Lien placed by some contractors that feels he didn't get paid enough, or somethiong like that, this goes on all the time in any business or association (business). If it is someone suing for serious stuff like discrimination, larceny, abuse, legal responsibilities, this also goes on on, no organization are free of it. Of course that is why there are lawyers and judges, etc, etc.
Your association should carry all kinds of insurance for protection, check and see what kind you all are carrying.

Mike,
I believe that laws on leining are different in every State. What I should have added, is that a possible scenerio would be that your HOA does a special assessment to cover the outstanding bills. If a H.O fails to pay that special assessment, then the HOA can lein them for not paying. I DO NOT KNOW if leins against the HOA can be used against the individual members. I Hope Not!

Mike you need to be careful about the posts here. There is a lot of misleading information and opinion masquerading as fact.

First, laws in every state are different. There may be a statute that deals with precisely the situation you ask about. Also, condominium laws are typically different than the statutes that apply to single family associations.

Second, anyone can record a lien on any property. It is like a lawsuit. Anyone can sue you for just about anything. So if a contractor engaged by the homeowners association is not paid, not only can it lien the commonly held property, it can also lien individual units.

However, (and this is a big however), liens on individual units in such a case are likely not enforceable and would test the temper of a judge should the lien end up in court. Courts throughout the nation are not sympathetic to such bogus, unenforceable liens. Indeed, there is plenty of court cases in which placing an unenforceable lien has resulted in a penalty judgment against the lien holder.

Now, in some states, liens for things like municipal utilities (gas, water, sewer, etc) that are paid on a common basis for the benefit and convenience of individual unit owners, may be valid. If this is the case you need to check your specific state statutes. It all depends on what the lien is for.

One of the reasons an association is incorporated is to protect individual members from liability. Stockholders of a stock corporation are only liable for the debts of the corporation to the extent of their capital investment.

If your association is incorporated, which it likely is, then a lien on your unit for, say, unpaid landscaping of common areas, is likely bogus. But it is a nuisance. Were you to sell your unit, it would take some expensive legal work over several months to get it removed. If a court found it to be bogus you could recover damages from the lien holder. But that could take years.

With all that said, if a contractor placed a lien on association owned property, it could seek foreclosure action against the association (the owner). More likely, the contractor uses a lien to force a lawsuit. In a lawsuit, a civil judgment could be entered against the association. In such a case each unit owner would be required legally to pay your fair share of the judgment, most likely, through a special assessment to the association. Were the judgment not paid by the association, then it could be forced into bankruptcy, or association bank accounts or reserve funds could be seized by the court to satisfy the judgment.

OK, now if the developer is behind in payments to the association, the association can (1) sue the developer and (2) place a lien on all the unsold lots or units. However, in the interim, other unit owners would be required to make up the shortfall through higher assessments. But, if the developer is illiquid (has no cash to pay the judgment) or in bankruptcy, then it becomes a much stickier situation. Once the funds are recovered from the developer they can be returned to individual unit owners, or, perhaps, placed in the association reserve fund.

OP stated: "our water bill, electric bill, landscapers," have not been paid.

This really is an emergency and puts the homeowners in an awful situation.

You know George, sometimes you have about as much tact as a hammer to the side of the head. In looking back over the posts in this thread, I would have a hard time saying that anybody has said that anything is "fact". Donna stated that laws on leining vary by state, which you also stated. Most of the posts have been asking for more info so that people can offer an informed opinion, which is how most threads on this site play out. Ultimately, this thread will probably end up with people explaining how it worked for them in a similar situation and advising the OP that they should probably seek local legal advice, which again is how most threads here play out.

I don't think anybody here would argue that you don't have valuable information to offer, but when you open a post with statements like that, I think all you really accomplish is alienating the other people here.

I second THIS post,

AND Donna's


AND Robert's.


In fact, while I have nothing on topic to add to this post, I don't think I saw a single reply that was much different than George's was to begin with. Except the other posters didn't start out trash-talking about everyone else's comments. . . .

WOW, I just came upon this thread. There have been times when I found some of "the usual suspects" here to be too arrogant almost defiant giving "instructions" to posters. I was a bit taken aback about this attitude and expressed my opinion only to be chastised.
Well, I think these "usual suspects" have recently toned down their comments and are now more cautious and sensible. I do appreciate the wealth of information volunteered on this forum by folks that offer their time and talent to answer or try to guide inexperienced people in the right direction. AMEN.

Donna, I believe we are way overdue for a "group Hug". I'm feeling a lot of tension here.



Dana

PS I have never experienced the above issue so I'll just sit back and watch the kids play on this one.

Or maybe you're just not as sensitive as you used to be.

I think us "usual suspects" have ALWAYS been "cautious and sensible," and I'm trying for the life of me to figure out who among the Usual Suspects posts arrogant instructions.

I do think some people come in here with a bit of a chip on their shoulders and, couple that with the inherent nature of written communication not containing additional cues such as tone of voice and other non-verbals, and their not knowing the "usual suspects" as well as the "usual suspects" know each other, there's bound to be some misunderstandings and over-reactions at times.

I have yet to see a more "senior" poster (in terms of numbers of posts or length of time here) purposely or haphazardly provide information or guidance or advice that is NOT somehow couched in a typical "your mileage may vary" disclaimer.

I think the regular posters invariably go out of their way to make it very clear that the information they are providing is OPINION only (for the most part) and is based on THEIR experiences in THEIR HOAs or COAs and in THEIR local jurisdictions.

William T,
I suppose that could be said of any human being over the age of six months, don't you think.

At least our personal experiences include hours and hours of listening to what is posted on this site. I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but some of this stuff has got to rub off on me. But, I admit I have only lived in association for something like 37 years, and 20 of that has been in the same association. One thing this has taught me is I don't know very much, but I know a little something.

Sussana,
As you probably know there are two threads here that Mike started.
This appears to be the second one. I am not sure the first thread can be reconciled with the second as it appears to me to tell two different stories. I am dizzy from flitting back and forth between the two and since Mike seems to have disappeared, maybe it doesn't matter. This is my first impression when I was trying to answer your question and I will see again if it makes ant sense.