TiwannaW
Posts: 3
Posts: 3
Posted:
How often are you a loud to go up on hoa dues within one two three years and how much?
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Going up on hoa dues?
Started by TiwannaW • 21 replies • 1977 views
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How often are you a loud to go up on hoa dues within one two three years and how much?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Good question.
We can't give you that answer, however, since the answer should reside in your own Association's governing documents.
If this topic is addressed, it should refer to when, how, and how much allowed without a membership vote.
Also, depending on your state, there might be state regulations on assessment increases.
But you might want to start with you Deed Conditions, Covenants, and Restrictions (often referred to as CC&Rs) or your by-laws.
Here's an example of what that section may look like:
Section 6. Maximum Annual Assessment.
(a) Until January 1 of the year immediately following the conveyance of the first lot to an owner, the maximum annual assessment shall be set at a rate not to exceed $120.00 per year per lot. From and after January 1 of the year immediately following the conveyance of the first lot to an owner, the maximum annual assessment may be increased each year not more than 25% above the maximum assessment for the previous year without a vote of two-thirds of each class of members pursuant to the Bylaws.
(b) The Board of Directors may fix the annual assessment at an amount not in excess of the maximum. The Board of Directors shall determine when the assessments shall be paid.
We can't give you that answer, however, since the answer should reside in your own Association's governing documents.
If this topic is addressed, it should refer to when, how, and how much allowed without a membership vote.
Also, depending on your state, there might be state regulations on assessment increases.
But you might want to start with you Deed Conditions, Covenants, and Restrictions (often referred to as CC&Rs) or your by-laws.
Here's an example of what that section may look like:
Section 6. Maximum Annual Assessment.
(a) Until January 1 of the year immediately following the conveyance of the first lot to an owner, the maximum annual assessment shall be set at a rate not to exceed $120.00 per year per lot. From and after January 1 of the year immediately following the conveyance of the first lot to an owner, the maximum annual assessment may be increased each year not more than 25% above the maximum assessment for the previous year without a vote of two-thirds of each class of members pursuant to the Bylaws.
(b) The Board of Directors may fix the annual assessment at an amount not in excess of the maximum. The Board of Directors shall determine when the assessments shall be paid.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
It must be spelled out in your docs..start with reading and understanding them.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Nice post Michele,
I am sure it will be good advice for her/him and it will lead to a direction of greater owner participation.
I am sure it will be good advice for her/him and it will lead to a direction of greater owner participation.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posts: 366
Posted:
My Covenants state that annual assessment can be increase by 10% every year. Well, we had an assoc. meeting last month where the board discussed the budget. I was present. The Agenda had no mention of an assessment increase. I have read the approved Minutes of this meeting and it turns out the board had voted to approve the budget and the increase. I though boards cannot vote on items that are not properly disclosed on the agenda.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Susanna,
I am fighting about the right the Board has to increase the fees to the local cpi and you can can increase 10%. To me that is not acceptable. I would like to believe that the BOD has the knowledge and fortitude and integrity to increase the fees anything the want. But they don't year to year, hence some control. It does require for the BOD to know their job if they have to justify and explain needed assessments but in the end, they are ways to get the job done.
Your procedural requirements should be spelled out in your documents, if not, get the board to pass a resolution and make an admendment by next year. I think that may work if it is worded to justify the acute need for progressive change. In fact if done right you may well justify the amendment by having the membership participate in the new process. I think a 10% closed meeting approval is wrong, wrong wrong. If you were there, why the remark, "it turns out, the board, etc?"
I am fighting about the right the Board has to increase the fees to the local cpi and you can can increase 10%. To me that is not acceptable. I would like to believe that the BOD has the knowledge and fortitude and integrity to increase the fees anything the want. But they don't year to year, hence some control. It does require for the BOD to know their job if they have to justify and explain needed assessments but in the end, they are ways to get the job done.
Your procedural requirements should be spelled out in your documents, if not, get the board to pass a resolution and make an admendment by next year. I think that may work if it is worded to justify the acute need for progressive change. In fact if done right you may well justify the amendment by having the membership participate in the new process. I think a 10% closed meeting approval is wrong, wrong wrong. If you were there, why the remark, "it turns out, the board, etc?"
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusannaM on 11/21/2008 6:00 PM
My Covenants state that annual assessment can be increase by 10% every year. Well, we had an assoc. meeting last month where the board discussed the budget. I was present. The Agenda had no mention of an assessment increase. I have read the approved Minutes of this meeting and it turns out the board had voted to approve the budget and the increase. I though boards cannot vote on items that are not properly disclosed on the agenda.
My Covenants state that annual assessment can be increase by 10% every year. Well, we had an assoc. meeting last month where the board discussed the budget. I was present. The Agenda had no mention of an assessment increase. I have read the approved Minutes of this meeting and it turns out the board had voted to approve the budget and the increase. I though boards cannot vote on items that are not properly disclosed on the agenda.
Susanna,
Whether or not the board can vote on items not on the agenda depends upon what your gov. docs or state law say. Some bylaws may address agendas, but I would be surprised. Not being familiar with FL HOA statutes, I don't know if this is addressed. AZ HOA statutes do not even require that an agenda be prepared much less state only agenda items can be addressed at a particular meeting.
Regarding the 10% increase; AZ HOA statutes state: "unless limitation in the community documents would result in a lower limit for the assessment, the assn shall not impose a regular assessment that is more than 20% greater than the immediately preceding fiscal year's assessment w/o the approval of the majority of the members of the assn." Frankly, I think it's unfortunate for those assn's (such as yours) whose bylaws mandate a certain % increase each year. I know of an assn in my area with this requirement. Several years ago the board asked the members to vote on a change to the bylaws to remove this requirement (the assn just does not need the extra funds each year!), but they were unable to get the required number of votes! Talk about apathy -- here we have HOA members who won't even take the time to vote to prevent their dues from being raised each year.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posts: 366
Posted:
Thanks Robert and Mary. I'm not going to spell details here but my HOA is "frozen" in time. Nothing, I mean nothing has been done since transition from developer. I think I've to run for the new board. We have 2 distinctive sections. Phase I is older and houses are smaller, Phase II is much newer and houses are larger, more modern, mostly brick, etc. We have 2 "worlds" that collide. Wish me luck.
MarianneG (Indiana)
Posts: 170
Posts: 170
Posted:
From your posts here, I'd sure encourage you to run for the board. I think you have the requisite good sense to be a real asset to your community. Good luck and keep us posted!
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Susanna,
We went twenty six years without changing our documents except for some "pet peeve" a Board member had a time or two. And yes there comes a time when someone has to step into the breach. It's true and not melodramtic to phrase it that way. It is also true about our daily lives and if no one steps up and minds the store (family, job, kids, church, or gym), all will suffer.
Keep in mind, most of us here have been there, done that and I would venture to say, still fight a daily battle to keep the train on the track. Advice: it is imperative to get some support. You don't need much but don't be a lone eagle. Three or four people going before an entrenched board is powerful medicine. Some of those Board members may not have talked to ten different owners, and to see a group of homeowners standing before them armed with knowledge they never dreamed existed if very intimidating. You will do well Susanna, and maybe a couple more folks around here can share their experiences.
We went twenty six years without changing our documents except for some "pet peeve" a Board member had a time or two. And yes there comes a time when someone has to step into the breach. It's true and not melodramtic to phrase it that way. It is also true about our daily lives and if no one steps up and minds the store (family, job, kids, church, or gym), all will suffer.
Keep in mind, most of us here have been there, done that and I would venture to say, still fight a daily battle to keep the train on the track. Advice: it is imperative to get some support. You don't need much but don't be a lone eagle. Three or four people going before an entrenched board is powerful medicine. Some of those Board members may not have talked to ten different owners, and to see a group of homeowners standing before them armed with knowledge they never dreamed existed if very intimidating. You will do well Susanna, and maybe a couple more folks around here can share their experiences.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posts: 366
Posted:
Thanks guys. No, I'm not alone...and yes, I've previous board experience. I have only been in this house for a few months. Thanks again.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
MaryA,
Too bad everyone can't read this post. Concerning the association that don't care enough to vote to lower their fees, all because they don't care enough, does not come as big news to a lot of people posting here. It also speaks to deep problems with todays society. However as far as associations are concerned, you have to admit, our numbers are on the rise and we are still young as far as the # of people involved. Millions now live in associations and I hope we can look forward to more and more members participating. Not everyone is going to be able to spend the time and effort required to run a tight ship, but we sure can offer and support those that have this capability. A good start for all is to really read your documents and spend the time and effort needed to understand them. We all have documents that are not perfect, but if we know our shortcomings we can individually support the BOD in many areas we don't agree about because we have a sense of the bigger picture.
Too bad everyone can't read this post. Concerning the association that don't care enough to vote to lower their fees, all because they don't care enough, does not come as big news to a lot of people posting here. It also speaks to deep problems with todays society. However as far as associations are concerned, you have to admit, our numbers are on the rise and we are still young as far as the # of people involved. Millions now live in associations and I hope we can look forward to more and more members participating. Not everyone is going to be able to spend the time and effort required to run a tight ship, but we sure can offer and support those that have this capability. A good start for all is to really read your documents and spend the time and effort needed to understand them. We all have documents that are not perfect, but if we know our shortcomings we can individually support the BOD in many areas we don't agree about because we have a sense of the bigger picture.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
What did the agenda list re: budget?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
Meant for Susanna---What did the agenda list re: budget?
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posts: 366
Posted:
hey Donna, are you asking me??
If so, the agenda says " board will be going over finances with PM to see where money has gone.....board to go over proposed budget...."
Approved Minutes says "....expenses through year end were reviewed...it was agreed that assessment for 2009 would raise from XXX to XXXX,.......motion was made by Prez. All were in favor......."
I'm not surprised that they assumed approval of budget and assessment increase go hand-in-hand.
If so, the agenda says " board will be going over finances with PM to see where money has gone.....board to go over proposed budget...."
Approved Minutes says "....expenses through year end were reviewed...it was agreed that assessment for 2009 would raise from XXX to XXXX,.......motion was made by Prez. All were in favor......."
I'm not surprised that they assumed approval of budget and assessment increase go hand-in-hand.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posts: 366
Posted:
RobertR, I think you had asked me if I was present at the budget meeting. I was but the Treasurer had a "tantrum" and created a big disruption. He wanted a park fence at all costs to be included in 2009 budget. That created a lot of confusion amongst attendees.
It's just a circus, what else can I say. Hopefully, next year will be a lot better.
It's just a circus, what else can I say. Hopefully, next year will be a lot better.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Make it so Susanna, make it so!
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posts: 967
Posted:
RobertR writes:
>>>Concerning the association that don't care enough to vote to lower their fees, all because they don't care enough, does not come as big news to a lot of people posting here. It also speaks to deep problems with todays society.<<<
I'll bite, as to the "deep problems with" part, as I don't want to get pegged with that responsibility. Being our HOA's S/T is enough for me right now!
>>>Concerning the association that don't care enough to vote to lower their fees, all because they don't care enough, does not come as big news to a lot of people posting here. It also speaks to deep problems with todays society.<<<
I'll bite, as to the "deep problems with" part, as I don't want to get pegged with that responsibility. Being our HOA's S/T is enough for me right now!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,
And, that is a big problem for some people who don't know when to say "no" to sitting on another board, committee, etc. People talk about board members not having experience, not doing their jobs properly, etc., etc. In some cases it could be because a board member has just bitten off more than he can chew. I know many people like this. Glad to say, I'm not in that category. I know what I can (or want to) handle and am certainly not afraid to say no.
And, that is a big problem for some people who don't know when to say "no" to sitting on another board, committee, etc. People talk about board members not having experience, not doing their jobs properly, etc., etc. In some cases it could be because a board member has just bitten off more than he can chew. I know many people like this. Glad to say, I'm not in that category. I know what I can (or want to) handle and am certainly not afraid to say no.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
John,
No bait involved, but it appears the credit card mess seems to indicate something about our society. However, just an opinion and certainly not the place to resolve that issue.
No bait involved, but it appears the credit card mess seems to indicate something about our society. However, just an opinion and certainly not the place to resolve that issue.
MichaelS26 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posts: 5
Posted:
OURS IS 10% EVERY YEAR BUT IT MUST BE SPELLED OUT IN YOUR DOCS
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Our CCRs allow the board to increase fees up to 5% over the current year - anything over that has to be put to a vote by the homeowners (and of course we all know how whacky that can be!)
We try to keep our homeowners informed about the budget and why money's being spent or not - last week, we edited a lengthly letter that went to homeowners this week about our budget problems and as I speak, I'm working on the December edition of our newsletter that will advise homeowners of yet another plumbing problem that may involve tree roots (some of you read my post on THAT subject and whether a special assessment might be necessary).
That's really all you can do - read the documents, watch your spending, ask questions and let the homeowners know what you're doing and why. I've said to several people (several times) if they don't like what we're doing, that's ok - give us another option to explore.
We try to keep our homeowners informed about the budget and why money's being spent or not - last week, we edited a lengthly letter that went to homeowners this week about our budget problems and as I speak, I'm working on the December edition of our newsletter that will advise homeowners of yet another plumbing problem that may involve tree roots (some of you read my post on THAT subject and whether a special assessment might be necessary).
That's really all you can do - read the documents, watch your spending, ask questions and let the homeowners know what you're doing and why. I've said to several people (several times) if they don't like what we're doing, that's ok - give us another option to explore.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
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