changes to the bylaws

Started by VirginiaM • 10 replies • 2140 views

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VirginiaM (New York)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Hi I'm new to this site and I have to say it is just great! Alot of eye-opening information.

I have a question regarding changes to bylaws. I am part of a 142 home beach association that owns 2 $1M properties on Long Island, NY. The current dues listed on the bylaws dated 1981, is $30. They currently charge $125. The Board says it is not necessary to amend the bylaws if they want to raise the dues amount. They say that changing the amount does not change the bylaws.

I was on the board but resigned because I did not agree with the way they do business. One actually said that she did not care what the bylaws said, they don't follow them. My main question is - what actually constitutes a change to the bylaws?

Any advice is appreciated.

WilliamH (Florida)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Proper By-Laws are adopted by the membership and can only be changed by the membership according to a procedure contained in the By-Laws. They take precedence over Rules, which can be changed, usually, by the Board. Unless there is specific language in your By-Laws to the contrary, the Board cannot amend them. Usually, items subject to change, such as fees, are incorporated into the rules rather than the By-Laws.

VirginiaM (New York)
Posts: 23

Posted:

The only thing they have are bylaws, they don't have a separate set of "rules". This would be something that has to be publish/distributed when someone joins the assocation, no?

They are not forthcoming when asked for documents. When asked for a copy of the bylaws (since I was not given any information on the association when I moved in) the current President's wife (and also board member) said "we don't like to give them out", she also said when I asked her later why they don't go by anything listed in the bylaws (i.e. when to hold meetings, distribution of financial info, raising dues, etc.) she said - they don't go by the bylaws, never did, never will. When confronted at a meeting they basically said shut up and sit down. The meetings are normally only attended by 17 members vs 140 in total.

My biggest concern is that the current board wants to develop the property which could really run the membership costs up significanly. Also there is a provision in the bylaws that says they need to get a 2/3 vote to borrow money however if they are "not abiding" and borrow money (which could be up to $2million) would I be liable for paying it back even if no vote was taken?

I know I should get an attorney but that also will run into alot of money I don't really want to spend if it is not necessary.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Virginia, follow the HOA docs and remove these idiots from the Board. Potentially they could cost you a lot of money. I have outlined the process in another reply.

Roger

VirginiaM (New York)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Roger, thanks for your reply! I know that that is the ultimate goal, but my first is trying to convince these people that a change in the text of the bylaws is indeed a change to by bylaws, and that they need to follow the bylaws, like it or not. They use alot of intimidation and threats when dealing with members who disagree with them and most just don't want to get involved or be bothered. Any idea where I could find legal information regarding bylaws, changes to them, and why they need to be followed? I may just have to resort to getting a lawyer but if I could do a little leg-work on my own I might save some money. Thanks again for your advice!
Virginia

ChrisJ4 (Illinois)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Defining "Fenced Enclosure". I am looking for any examples or any previous legal action concerning an HOA's defining a "fenced Enclosure" Our Covenants state that "no animals or pets may be kept or leashed outside the building on any lot, except within a fenced enclosure" Our board is refusing to enforce this upon receiving our complaint. The homeowner is claiming an invisible fence qualifies. The board may not want to enforce covenants as written as their previous failures to enforce we have numerous examples of this in the community. Any ideas? Has anyone legaly defined the invisible fence? or legally defined a "fenced enclosure"? I am enlisting the help of an attorney but want as much research as possible to get educated on the subject.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By VirginiaM on 11/21/2005 10:45 AM

I was on the board but resigned because I did not agree with the way they do business. One actually said that she did not care what the bylaws said, they don't follow them. My main question is - what actually constitutes a change to the bylaws?

Any advice is appreciated.

It depends on what is required by your governing documents and State law. For instance our Covenants require that 51% of all homeowners approve the changes and that they are filed with the County Recorders office. Other places allow the Board to change the By-Laws and do not require recording.

I would start by visiting the County Recorder and getting copies of all applicable documents for your HOA, you may need to contact the NY Secretary of States Office for the Articles of Incorporation. I would also check the applicable New York laws concerning HOA's and non-profit corporations. Chances are regardless of whether they want to provide the By-Laws or not; they probably are required to.

http://law.justia.com/newyork/codes/not-for-profit-corporation/

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMLAWS
(click on RPP - Real Property)

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

TishS (Washington)
Posts: 11

Posted:

I am dealing with the same issue. I filed a quite title action. The association filed a request for declaratory judgement. We went to court yesterday. I was lucky in the fact the HOA attorney stated in open court they did not follow the bylaws and actually told the judge it did not matter (in my case the issue is mandatory versus voluntary membership) The judge is taking a week to make a decision, so I dont know the outcome yet. I would get a copy of any documents and mail them out to everyone in the HOA, I found only about 10 percent of my fellow HOA members even knew the bylaws existed and fewer knew that some of us have CCR's

Yes it is expensive, but doing nothing will can cost you more in the end.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Tish,

I don't understand your reasoning for filing a quiet title action, which is "A proceeding to establish an individual's right to ownership of real property against one or more adverse claimants." What does this have to do with whether your HOA is mandatory or voluntary?

TishS (Washington)
Posts: 11

Posted:

The mandatory versus voluntary issue only came into play after the original action was filed. It really started out trying to address the CCR's on my deed...it has evolved into something much more complicated and more confusing I have learned if you dont like what is written just come up with a more creative and confusing answer

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Tish,

Sorry but it sounds like a frivilous lawsuit to me and the HOA pays their expenses through the assessments collected from each member of the HOA -- including you.

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