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JudyZ (Florida)
Posts: 23
Posted:
We have an Association which, on their Proxy and Ballot, is seeking numerous changes to their by-laws. They have listed the various Amendments, but no place for the homeowner to vote "for, against or abstain" on each amendment. They have a blanket "for, against or abstention"....in other words, you approve all or none of the Amendments. Previous work with union contracts, and just common sense, tells me you have to vote individually on each Amendment. I know this should be written somewhere, or, is it just common sense?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Judy,

I agree with you, each individual proposed amendment should be voted on separately. And, yes, I too think it's just common sense -- something far too many people don't seem to possess!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Judy,
There is nothing in 720 or 617 which require any amendments to be presented seperately BUT how scarey is the fact that the Board has chosen to ask the membership to accept it as a single amendment vote. Commomn sense is certainly missing in this presentation.

How many amendments are there. Are they all on a particular subject or a wide scope of subjects? Reading that you are close to having this voted on puts your ability to get the membership on a mission to disaprove the whole package under tight time constraints. But that is what I would do. You cannot change the ballot because that would be illegal. But I would get every member to vote "NO". Let the Board know that this is not how to present the changes. Every amendment should have a seperate vote.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
Judy, have you thoroughly review your current By-Laws ?? If there is nothing to indicate that the BOD has to present each amendment separetely then you may not have a case at all, contrary to what Donna says. Remember, posters on this website can only offer their opinions. Donna should refrain from directing readers to do this or that.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
"Numerous" changes sounds like a revision, not amendments to individual bylaws. And revised bylaws are usually adopted in total.

About the only thing you can do is demand a two-column, side by side listing of the old bylaws compared to the new ones. I am surprised that the board thinks it can dump an entirely new set of bylaws on the membership without some pre-discussions involving the members.

We invited members to readings of the bylaws over three evenings, explaining all revisions to those in attendance. The next month, when it came to vote at the annual meeting, it went very smoothly.

Vote NO and insist that there be a bylaw committee that somehow involves the Membership.
HeatherJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Yikes. I had to look and see if Judy was in SC as we JUST did the exact thing she mentioned. It happened before I was on the board. We sent out a ballot requesting numerous changes on the by-laws AND C&R's to be approved...yes or no to all.

I had no idea it should've been done separately but now I do if it happens again while I am on this board. I can see how much more sense it would make to vote yes or no to each individual change. But, then again, we couldn't even get back our simple ballots. I know we'd never get one that complicated returned.

Best of luck, Judy.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
What am I not understanding here? Our covenants call for a special meeting to change documents. I would suggest that might be the way to go. Put out all the information about the desired changes, and this can be tweaked up until the Special Meeting. Get it all firmed up, call the special meeting before the annual meeting, same day. Present the changes, invite discussion, set it in stone, vote on it to get required % approval, announce the results and close the meeting. Open the annual meeting, adopt the changes and schedule filing at court house. The deed is done.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

I feel that I need to clarify what the O.P needs as some alternative information from the normal range of thinking.

This Board has chosen to bundle all of the amendments. The membership can just accept this fact or do something about the way the amendments were presented.

They have 2 choices. One is to be reactive. The amendments will pass or not pass. They then have to live with this as this is what they chose to do. OR they can be PROACTIVE!!. As I commented on what "I" would do, I would have as many people as I could possibly contact, vote NO or ABSTAIN. If the amendment package does not pass, then they have a choice. Redo the vote the correct way or just leave things as is.

Once that vote is counted and recorded, that is what they have to live with. Many are upset at the combining all of the amendments as a 1 vote package. I would bet this entire website that there is NO place in the governing Docs, allowing for bundling of votes on amendments. I have never seen or heard of this being addressed in anyones docs. This is something that the Board decided to do. It is not illegal to do so but it not the correct way to change bylaws.

The choice is up to the members. We talk about this all of the time here. You the members can have a say so, the choice is up to you on getting it done.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
In Roberts Rules, there is such a thing as Division of a Question. This is a motion to separate the motion into parts, and each one is voted on separately. While this is not used for amendments that much, it could be done.

IMHO, the board should have presented each change in a separate vote (IF it is truely amendment changes.) If it's a true revision of the entire document, then it is voted on in entirety.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
In my experience whether or not to bundle or parse amendments to By-laws (also CC&Rs) for voting is a judgement call. Sometimes we have drafted amended and restated By-laws as a bundle for one vote on the entire package. And sometimes amendments to individual items (or Articles) are voted on separately. This week I attended a Special Association meeting where 8 Articles were individually voted on; all 8 passed. Often the decision is based on the experience level of the Board members who make the decision.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:


INTRODUCTION

WHEREAS, , Inc. previously created a condominium subject to the Horizontal Property Act of South Carolina known as the Village of Newhaven with Common Elements and Limited Common Elements for the benefit of the owners and occupants; and,

WHEREAS, a Master Deed and Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions was recorded in the Record of Deeds Office in Book 311 at Page 329 on November 21, 1980 pursuant to the Horizontal property Regime Act in order to set forth in writing the concept of the project; and,

WHEREAS, the Master Deed and Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions was thereafter amended in Deed Book 39 at Page 858; Deed Book 577 at Page 1319; Deed Book 603 at Page 2042; Deed Book 927 at Page 1571; and Deed Book 1044 at Page 1321; and,

WHEREAS, Section 1 of Article XII of the Master Deed provides a method by which the Owners of the Units can amend the original Master Deed; and,

Could all these changes be handled as below.

As you can see we amended the CC&R's by rewriting (amending the entire document) In addition to the changes we wanted to make, we had the pleasure of making small addition or deletions in the document language.

Please, if this is illegal, don't tell me.

WHEREAS, the Owners met at a special meeting on April 16, 2005 and by a vote of 81.89 percentage interest in favor agreed to (1) delete the original Master Deed recorded in Deed Book 311 at Page 329 in 1980 (except to retain the original Article V - Assessments), (2) to delete all the amendments stated above, and (3) to insert in lieu thereof this First Amended Master Deed and Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions as the sole and only Master Deed and Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions.

NOW THEREFORE, the Owners hereby declare that the real property described below and such additions thereto as may hereafter be made in Article II shall be held, transferred, sold, conveyed, leased, occupied and used subject to the covenants, restrictions, conditions, easements, charges, affirmative obligations, assessments, fees and liens herein set forth, which shall be for the benefit of the real property described herein which shall run with the land and shall be binding on

all persons having any right, title, estate or interest therein or any part thereof, and also upon their heirs, successors, assigns and legal representatives.

This document to be effective on May 18, 2005 and thereafter.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
screwed up the remarks I made to be inserted at begining of posting and they ended up in the middle of post. Sorry about that.

My remarks started with: Could all these changes be made as below.

Ended with, Please, if this is illegal, don't tell me.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

When an assn is wanting to amend the whole document, IMO, it's proper to vote on the whole document instead of each section. However, the board should hold meetings with the members to discuss the amendments being proposed.
JudyZ (Florida)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Donna: I did a quick check and it looks like 17 changes in the by-laws. Several of the changes are merely cleaning up the by-laws, for instance deleting all referances to Class B membership. This is good, and much needed. But, then other things are changed...date of budget meeting, positions held by officers, etc. I believe one vote could be taken for "deletion to all references to Class B membership" since there no longer is a Class B membership; but, it should be noted that any reference to Class B membership refers to the original builder of the subdivision. Thanks for your usual timely and knowledgeable reply. I always look forward to your responses.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
JudyZ, it sounds like you have to come the conclusion that most of these amendments were much needed, and are practical. The rest does not affect you directly as a homeowner, right ??? So there is no need to create a riot, right? Maybe your board needed to update a few key items on your By-Laws so that going forward they may function in a more effective way for the benefit of the community.

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