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CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:

I have, as you maybe aware, have been thoroughly reviewing the governing documents from a newly formed sub-division in Franklin County, Pa. I understand the reason for staggered term, makes sense, but, IDK, about you, a three year commitment is a bit absurd. Unfortunately, I feel that getting volunteers with be tremendously, difficult. I PERSONALLY HAVE DECIDED THAT I WON’T VOLUNTEER TO BE A BOARD MEMBER. I’ll be involved, but NOT as board member.

Are there any stipulations to having a ā€œmember at largeā€ position? I feel it the builder doesn’t address my concerns, that I will suggestion as a last resort.

Iā€˜ve attached the wording found in the covenants concerning the elected position please review and let me know if I’ve misinterpreted them.

Thanks once more.

Chuck W.
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Charles E. Wafer Jr.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
CharlesW, didn't you say on another thread that you were planning to move to PA in two (2) years???

Most HOAs required a min. of 3 people on the HOA/BOD but allow to add 2 more board members, one of which is called "member at large."
There are also HOAs that have up to 7 or 10 board members.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesW1 on 11/14/2008 8:40 AM

I have, as you maybe aware, have been thoroughly reviewing the governing documents from a newly formed sub-division in Franklin County, Pa. I understand the reason for staggered term, makes sense, but, IDK, about you, a three year commitment is a bit absurd. Unfortunately, I feel that getting volunteers with be tremendously, difficult. I PERSONALLY HAVE DECIDED THAT I WON’T VOLUNTEER TO BE A BOARD MEMBER. I’ll be involved, but NOT as board member.

Are there any stipulations to having a ā€œmember at largeā€ position? I feel it the builder doesn’t address my concerns, that I will suggestion as a last resort.

Iā€˜ve attached the wording found in the covenants concerning the elected position please review and let me know if I’ve misinterpreted them.

Thanks once more.

Chuck W.

Charles,

Although you say "covenants", did you really mean this article is in your bylaws? However, it is pretty much standard fare. Many assn's have staggered terms and a 3-yr term is not unusual. THe term could be reduced to 2 years. At the first meeting 1 person is elected to a 1-yr term and 2 are elected to a 2-yr term; thereafter each member is elected to a 2-yr term. Many assn's provide for a 5 member board meaning 4 officers and 1 member at-large. Depending upon the size of the assn, a 3-member board may be sufficient. Oftentimes the bylaws will stipulate 3-5 members. Some assn's even allow for larger boards -- I've heard of 7 and even up to 10 members. However, the number of members s/b stipulated in the bylaws.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
>>>a three year commitment is a bit absurd. Unfortunately, I feel that getting volunteers with be tremendously, difficult. I PERSONALLY HAVE DECIDED THAT I WON’T VOLUNTEER TO BE A BOARD MEMBER. I’ll be involved, but NOT as board member.<<<

Absurd?

Our BODs are all elected to three year terms. In the past, some have resigned before their three years were up. Some moved. Some lost interest. Some accomplished pet projects then quit. Whatever. None of them, that I know, were punished or criticized. It's a voluntary gig, y'know?

Yes, BOD volunteers are hard to get. Such as yourself. So volunteer for something that suits you. BODs are usually happy to have other Members offer to serve in non-BOD capacities.
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Here is the relevant section from our Bylaws. I'll post without comment for now.


"Term of Office" - At the first annual meeting of the Association, Members shall elect three (3) Directors. Each Director shall be elected for a term of one (1) year and at such annual meeting of the Association thereafter, the Members shall elect three (3) Directors, of which at least two (2) are incumbents, for a term of one (1) year.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Charles - here's something for you: we have no term limits; every annual meeting the officers are elected (4) and then 5 more members. We have a nominating committee so that we are assured a slate of willing candidates, but some of them have been on the board for FOREVER!!

Fortunately, we have a group of mid-40's that wanted to be on the board this past election and we have some newly retired residents that were interested.

I tbink our board is a little too large, and 5 - 7 would have been enough. However, I am a proponent of active committees, so micro-managing that is not done at board meetings. Sometimes there are several conversations going on at one time at board meetings.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DwightT on 11/14/2008 11:45 AM
Here is the relevant section from our Bylaws. I'll post without comment for now.


"Term of Office" - At the first annual meeting of the Association, Members shall elect three (3) Directors. Each Director shall be elected for a term of one (1) year and at such annual meeting of the Association thereafter, the Members shall elect three (3) Directors, of which at least two (2) are incumbents, for a term of one (1) year.


DwightT,

I’m going to attempt to interpret what you have written. I would appreciate it if you would verify, whether I’m correct or not.

Your By-laws states ā€œTerm of Office" - At the first annual meeting of the Association, Members shall elect three (3) Directors. Each Director shall be elected for a term of one (1) year and at such annual meeting of the Association thereafter, the Members shall elect three (3) Directors, of which at least two (2) are incumbents, for a term of one (1) year.ā€ Which is very similar to ours currently.

I believe it is saying that three directors will be elected at the first annual elections, each serving a one year term, and every year thereafter three directors (of which two MUST committee to a one year term also, I don’t understand?!

Interpreting the governing documents is like reading a medical dictionary. I read what is written, but can’t always understand what is actually being said.

Chuck W.


Charles E. Wafer Jr.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Dwight,

I believe your bylaws are the strangest I've ever seen! The requirement to elect two incumbent directors each year is very unusual and could really lead to one or two persons serving on the board indefinitely. I think I would be proposing an amendment to the bylaws!

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
I will agree that it is a rather bizarre way to to handle staggered terms, but it shouldn't cause any more "longevity" problems than other staggering methods.

Basically, assuming that all of the incumbents are running for re-election plus some "new blood", the way it works is once all the votes are tallied, the two incumbents with the highest number of votes are re-elected. Then whichever person of the remaining candidates has the highest number of votes gets the third seat.

If only two incumbents run for re-election, then they are re-elected.

If only one (or none) of the incumbents run, then there will be multiple seats open. We can't force somebody to server if they decide to "retire" - indentured servitude is frowned on in this country.

It's actually not as bad as it appears at first blush. If a total bobbling fool manages to get elected one year, we should only have to tolerate him for one year before he can be replaced.

Granted there could be problems if the entire Board needs to be replaced, but it's no more of an issue than if the terms where for staggered two or three years.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusannaM on 11/14/2008 8:52 AM
CharlesW, didn't you say on another thread that you were planning to move to PA in two (2) years???

Most HOAs required a min. of 3 people on the HOA/BOD but allow to add 2 more board members, one of which is called "member at large."
There are also HOAs that have up to 7 or 10 board members.

SusannaM,

That is correct. My wife and I are planning to make our big move in a couple of years, if all goes well.

For as large as the association is going to be, I feel 3 elected board members would be sufficient; five or more would be just too much and not at all necessary, imo.

Thanks for your input.
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Charles,
This may be just semantics but we have five Board members with the Board option to add "Officers" that are not members of the Board. All though our Boards have never appointed an officer I think it could be productive, if used wisely. The need for special expertise that an owner has comes to mind, as well as any special project that would require a report be made before the Board. First draft of covenant changes proposed, association history compilation, photographic history of property, photographic record of major improvements; all this could be handled by an owner "officer" appointed by the Board. Another is recycling efforts in the association. A whole bunch of stuff. This may take a load off the Board and stimulate more interest in the place.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Charles,

For what it's worth, my former assn only has 49 homes and for many years there was a 5-member board. I was on the first board after declarant control and we operated very nicely with 5 members -- 4 held the officer positions and the 1 member-at-large was appointed to chair the Architectural Comm. This worked out quite nicely -- everyone had a specific job to do. Now the assn operates with only 3 members due to lack of interest. Frankly, I could have run the assn single-handedly; as treasurer I was doing 90% of the work anyhow! The number of board members actually depends upon what is written in the bylaws. If there is a choice between 3 or 5 or 5 or 7, etc. it should be up to the board members to determine how many are required to effectively manage the assn. In some instances, the choice is taken away by the inability to muster enough members to run for a position.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Mary,

How true. The S/T position has by far the most work to do, which is why only superb individuals should be blessed(?!?) with serving in that position!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Charles our terms are for a staggered two year term; here's how our Declarant set it up:

Section 2.4. Term of Office; Resignations. Trustees terms shall be for two (2) years. Two of the Trustees first terms shall be for only one (1) year so that the terms can be staggered. Each Trustee shall hold office until the next annual meeting of members of the Association in which his term expires or until his successor is elected or until his earlier resignation, or removal from office or death. Any Trustee may resign at any time by oral statement to that effect made at a meeting of the Board of Trustees or in writing to that effect delivered to the Secretary of the Association; such resignation shall take effect immediately or at such other time as they may specify. Members of the Board of shall serve without compensation.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnK3 on 11/15/2008 8:38 AM
Mary,

How true. The S/T position has by far the most work to do, which is why only superb individuals should be blessed(?!?) with serving in that position!

I so agree with you! :-) BTW when my term was ended and I chose not to run again, the assn was forced to contract out for a bookkeeper. So, what does that tell you? LOL
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Glen,

Both my former and my current assn have staggered terms. Which I think is the best procedure because it allows for more continuity on the board. I know some assn's elect ALL their board members each year, which, IMO, is the least effective method. You could have a whole board with no one knowing what to do, especially if it's a self-managed assn.

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