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Plastic sheds not allowed

Started by DarylF • 26 replies • 2528 views

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DarylF (Washington)
Posts: 157
Posted:
Our CC&Rs have a couple things in that are pretty strict. For example, sheds are only allowed if they have certain sidings and shingle roofs. This makes having a plastic homedepot/walmart/costco/lowes shed a violation.

They do not look bad (opinion) and they are cheap, easy and handy. Several people in our HOA (more then 10 in an 87 home community) already have them and will probably be getting a violation notice real soon. The board doesn't seem to want to do it, but say the CC&Rs say it so they have to enforce it.

Can a board chose to ignore something in the CC&Rs? Other then changing the CC&Rs is there an option?

Thanks
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
First, carefully read the declaration of covenants to see if the association board has the right but not the duty or obligation to enforce the covenants. In my association the board shares enforcement rights with each homeonwer, but does not have an obligation to enforce covenants.

If that is true in your situation, the association board may choose not to take any action.

Otherwise, if there are no objections, I see no reason why the association can't simply ignore the issue until somebody files a complaint. Also, since the board may be empowered to interpret the covenants, they may decide that it is such a minor infraction as not to warrant action.

I don't buy the notion expressed by many here that every rule and ever covenant restriction is to be enforced to the letter.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
while George is correct in his opinion, the distaff side is that if the board doesn't enforce the rule until a complaint is lodged, by the time that happens, the problem may have grown hugely. instead of sending a letter to one out of compliance neighbor, they may suddenly be forced to deal with 47 out of compliance owners, AND have to answer the question "Well, why didn't you say something before?" What will the answer be?

Alternately, the board, by not enforcing a rule, can make their defense weaker in future cases if they suddenly decide to start enforcing rules. It's not an absolute (as well-argued by many here) that failure to enforce one rule means you can't enforce any rules, but it weakens the position should a case be taken to arbitration, court, mediation, etc.. It can be used to make the board seem capricious, arbitrary, wishy-washy, etc..

there are risks to both actions: enforcement, and not enforcing. the board must decide which risks they are willing to take.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
DarylF,
Normally, the Board IS charged in the Covenants to enforce the CC&R's. Special cases may require adjustments, as noted. If any question exists, I would say to enforce is the proper action. Having said that there appears to be in this case, a prior record of allowing these Plastic sheds to be erected. It is hard to prove that if they are erected and in plain view and have been there, and there are several, that the board just didn't notice them. Knowing this I would suggest that a quick canvas of the homeowners be taken to see how objectionable these sheds really are. If it turns out there is little objection to them, I would think the Board should look into ammending the documents. Follow your documents on procedures and it may be fairly easy to change your requirement for this particular item. If the desire or non desire indicates there is not a problem, fix it. It the sentiment is strong the other way, have the Board see if they can allow those in place but any new ones have to comply.
I would try very hard to appease all if possible, and if that don't work, make as few mad as possible. Maybe the Board could appoint a committe to report back to the board about the situation, as long as all is done with opem and complete candor.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
I believe that the Board has an implied charge to enforce the covenants. Now having said that, it would be well within the power of the Board to hold off on enforcement while a rule change is in progress.

If the Board doesn't feel that the sheds pose a problem, then they should look to change the rules. I would say to read through things carefully. Often times the restrictions you mention are in the design guidelines and not in the covenants. In order of trouble to amend typically you find:
1) covenants
2) bylaws
3) design guidelines

In our case the first require 67% of the residents to approve. The second requires a majority vote of a properly called meeting. And the third can be changed by the Board without member input.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I'm sorry but the advice for a BOD to conscientiously choose to violate the CC&R's because they don't like something or think it is unfair is way out of line here and it just opens the Association to unnecessary problems. Then in one or two years when a new BOD is elected and decides to enforce the CC&R's there will be someone here posting about selective enforcement, favoritism or out of control BOD's trying to control people. If you don't want to enforce about plastic sheds then change the Covenant and make them OK. Yes it may be hard but it is the right way to go about it.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
GlenL,
I certainly agree about with your read on enforcement of the covenants. You are right. However, we are presented with a problem that exists in a particular place at a particular time. As such, we approach the given situation and seek resolution or the best resolution. What's done is done and can't be changed in the past, it must be changed in the future. My "sense" of this situation is that it will not be productive to stir up a hornets nest. I get no real feel that the management has their finger on the pulse of the owners and that you not be unusual. So maybe it would be good for all and productive to taken this specific problem and work through it with owners input and maybe build a little good will in the process.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
KirkW1,
Your "design quidelines" is something we call "Rules of Conbduct." Our board can change these at will and with no notification. It does leave the door open for Board abuse of power, but I can't say that has been the case here, and if anything, the board could be a little more reactive in using this authority. I suppose the title "Rules of conduct" and "Design Guidelines" are both restrictive names, but you can't be all things to all people. I do think it allows the board a little needed freedom to "tweak" events that could cause a problem.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
This has turned out to be a timely thread. I have just completed my review and sign off for some legislative specifications that, once approved, will be forward to the legislative services agency for drafting a bill. It looks as if the bill will be introduced simultaneously in the House and Senate this year, assuring that it will receive at least a hearing in the General Assembly.

One item in the specs reads as follows:
    Right of Reasonable Interpretation and Enforcement: A homeowners association governing board shall be empowered to make reasonable interpretations of covenant restrictions and to grant exceptions to strict enforcement of covenants and rules, provided that the rationale for an exception is reasonable, documented and consistently applied. Further, the governing board may decline enforcement action of any alleged covenant or rule violation should it determine that it is in the best interest of the association not to pursue enforcement action of the alleged violations.
Keep in mind that this is not the proposed statutory language, just the specifications for writing it.

There is also a provision in the specs that enables homeowners to compel the board to act to enforce covenant or rule violations should it choose not to do so.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 11/06/2008 5:37 AM
KirkW1,
Your "design quidelines" is something we call "Rules of Conbduct." Our board can change these at will and with no notification. It does leave the door open for Board abuse of power, but I can't say that has been the case here, and if anything, the board could be a little more reactive in using this authority. I suppose the title "Rules of conduct" and "Design Guidelines" are both restrictive names, but you can't be all things to all people. I do think it allows the board a little needed freedom to "tweak" events that could cause a problem.
Robert,

What is your take on the “South Carolina Homeowners’ Association Act” (S1283) that is currently winding its way through your state legislature?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
George,
Just a very personal reply. I think I know one of the designers of this legislation, a lawyer I had contact with. I am just not ready to accept he would do a good job. But........I have read through it and honestly think it makes some wonderful additions. I intend to contact my State representative and talk so some other people and educate myself about who this applies to. So, my read is causiously optomistic. If I find out anything worthy of repeating I will post my opinion here.
RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149
Posted:
I (we) do not know what the relationship of the OP is to this situation.

Is he on the board or a committee?,

Does he have a shed?,

Does he want a shed?, etc.

Nor do we know if a complaint has been filed or if the OP wants to file one.

But as far as the discussion thus far...

My docs. DO NOT compell the BOD to enforce or act upon anything, and yes they share that enforcement right with every member.

Nor can I find anything that says they (directors) must "notice" or "see" something regardless of its percieved obviousness.

They [BOD] does however (specifically) have the POWER to enforce or act as necessary.

I have one of these sheds and can assemble/disassemble it in about 20 min. It is not considered a "permanent structure" in my municipality and is thus not subject to my documents restrictions. (Much like a patio umbrella or one of those 10' x 10' fold up/down canopies.)

Needless to say my BOD found that out the hard way.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
George,
I will move the South Carolina stuff to a new thread if anything of substance comes up. Right now, I am hearing this bill did not pass. Not sure what that means but will try and find out.
I also received a little feedback from a a astute observer of this these kinds of bills and his remarks were: "Hopefully optomistic, but with considerable reservations. Seems to have some good parts but a variety of blank spaces."

I concur, it appears to have built a nice house and put the windows in, but left the doors wide open.......We'll see. Too bad because some of this stuff is sorely needed in South Carolina. There is also the Horizontal Property Act that has been in effect in South Carolina since 76 I think. This is strictly condo and how that is supposed to jive with this first ever Homeowners Association Bill, is unknown to me.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

RW,
You wrote---"I have one of these sheds and can assemble/disassemble it in about 20 min. It is not considered a "permanent structure" in my municipality and is thus not subject to my documents restrictions. (Much like a patio umbrella or one of those 10' x 10' fold up/down canopies.)

Most documents also state that NO TEMPORARY STRUCTURES may be erected upon any lot and they go on to describe what temporary structure is so this is where these plastic sheds fit in.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
oooooh, good tactic donna...
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Yeah, Not just a pretty face here
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Donna,
Never was in your presence, but do or don't, you have earned the respect of a lot of people, therefore, you automatically have a pretty face, even if you are smart.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Danke Shoen! Robert
RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149
Posted:
These threads should be closed after 6 replies.

By then you have a good idea of the general sentiment.

After that they become ad nauseum rehash, personal messages, or pissing contests.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

RW,
After 6 replies, you can just stop reading them. There are more than 6 people who might have 6 different trains of thoughts. Sorry pal
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Maybe RW is the type who believes we need laws and regulations, and government control, of such things because as adult people, we have no will or ability to control ourselves... I have sometimes wished the government would change my TV channels when crud comes on I don't care for. And sometimes, i get junk mail, and i am reading it all, and i think "Gee, why won't someone come here and throw this stuff away?"

and then i go back to reading it.

RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149
Posted:
What does it matter what type of person I am?

Other "resident posters" here have reacted the same way. The act as though I'm playing with "their ball" here and they have the right to pass judgement on opinions here.

I look at it this way: "That Tingle tells you its working!"

Having said that,
Conversely, I don't care what kind of person any of you are.
An anonymous poster whose opinion here, like mine (all of them) means NOTHING.

For all you know I am posting as several aliases here right now.
I can even argue with myself!

Think about the possibilities. Impossible to prevent on an open forum such as this.

So don't take these forums too serious.

By all means feel free to argue your points, but try to stop short of the personal stuff.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
i personally believe that the type of person you are does matter. Since this board is built on opinion, i believe that the type of person who offers an opinion helps form, and add credibility to, that opinion.

For example, if i want advice on a good, strong marriage, I want to know the person offering it to me hasn't been divorced ten times, or never married (which is why i always wondered why people would take marriage advice from a priest). Granted, Paris Hilton's advice on decorum is advice, but i wouldn't give it the same weight or credence as Margaret Stewart's. So, to me, the type of person you are is very important, when i consider the weight to lend your advice.

SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
All, you guys better cut it out....this forum is loosing credibility, at least as far as I'm concerned. Some posts have nothing to do with the thread title or the nature of HOAs. Some long time posters are arrogant and disrespetful. In some instances the OP never post again. Who knows??? he/she might feel intimated or shocked at all the non-sense that ensues. If you guys want to argue about personal views then I'd suggest to join a chat room.
RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149
Posted:
Fellow Floridian, that is my point.

If you don't agree with some of the "regulars" here, they go after you in a personal way.

I have learned things here and benefited from other's perspectives.

But some here cannot deal with those who are different.

Others must catagorize you to assure them they are better.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
RW,

There are always going to be posters with inflated egos who think only their opinion is correct and are always asking for documentation of the responses. It's just the nature of the beast!
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
As a suggestion or more observation, it appears to me we all need to refocus on the purpose of this site. We have to expect people to come and go, all the world like standing on a street corner having a conversation with some passing predestrians, some come, some go, but, sure enough, given enough time the focus changes to the input of the people. Then it is time for someone to redirect the focus back to the purpose, to help others of our kin.

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