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DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Two of our seven board members have been busy rewriting the Rules and Regulations this summer, soon to be published and distributed to the members at the annual meeting in January. The drafts were distributed to the full board last week, but no one else can see them. Our CCRs are outdated (community is 30 years old), but Board wanted to take this route to amend only the Rules to "save legal fees, and avoid members having to vote on changes, as with CCRs". We do not have any fining capability language in our CCRs as Statute 720 allows, the $100 per day for violation up to $1,000. As a result, many current rules and regs, as well as CCRs, are presently ignored by members who know the Board has no enforceability anyway. As the CCRs do take priority, will someone please explain how enforceable Rules and Regs are? Thanks.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Dana,
The Rules and Regs are adopted by the Board of Directors only. They pretty much can write them any way that they want BUT!!! They must follow the restrictions in all of your other documents, including the restrictive covenants and bylaws. They cannot restrict something that is allowed in those other documents and vice versa.

If your covenants and bylaws do not allow for fining, then they cannot be added into the R.& R.s. The Board statement that they do not want to amend the CC&Rs leaves them in the same place that they were before. Rules and Regs are the lowest in the heirarchy of documents and basically just enforce your higher covenants and bylaws.

Without the ability to fine for violations, as you said, there is not much clout behind any Board actions. That is a pretty lame excuse to modernize your 30 year old CC&Rs. It does not have to cost that much if a committee rewrites the needed changes from what you already have in place. Legal is needed to review them just to ensure that they are correct language in case of needing a court involvement.

You said that no one has seen this R.and R. write yet? The Statutes require at least a 14 day receipt of those R.and Rs to be delivered to the membership PRIOR!!!! to the meeting at which the Board votes for their approval.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Donna,

You mentioned that Statues require at least a 14 day receipt of the R&R by membership PRIOR to the meeting at which the Board votes for their approval.

I was wondering, what exactly are these Statues and does this notification apply to ALL states? We are in Georgia, and just rescinded our R&R Document in its entirety because the Membership was not notified until after it was voted in by the BOD, and expanded somethings that were not mentioned at all in the CCR's.

My belief was and still is, that because the Membership will now be legally bound to comply to the R&R Doc, which hadn't existed when moving into the Community, they should be notified of the BOD's intentions before the vote takes place.

Also, makes for easier enforcement.

Thanks,
Gloria

SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
Gloria, what Donna says is correct except for her mention of Statutes. She may have referred to Florida laws not Georgia laws. Donna used to live in FL.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Check the Georgia Condominium Act.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Gloria,
Because I do not know what Georgia laws are in regards to HOAs, I cannot tell you if they are restricted on this subject. Every State is different. I can tell you tho that your own bylaws should state what your Board can or cannot do as for writting of Rules and Regs so I would read that carefully. I believe that Boards do have an obligation to inform the membership prior to a vote on anything and it appears that yours did not notify anyone.

For Dana-- below is the Statute just in case you want it for reference.

State Statute 720: 303, (2) BOARD MEETINGS--c-2

"Written notice of any meeting at which special assessments will be considered-- [or at which amendments to rules regarding parcel use will be considered must be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted to the members and parcel owners and posted conspicuously on the property or broadcast on closed-circuit cable television not less than 14 days before the meeting.]
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
"FURTHER RULES AND REGULATIONS. The Board of Directors by a two-thirds vote at a meeting at which a quorum is present, may from time to time adopt and approve such addtional rules and regulations concerning the use, occupancy and maintenance of, and activities conducted upon any Lot or improvements thereon on as it may deem necessary or desirable to clarify and supplement the provisions of this Article and such other pertinent provisions of this Declaration so as to promote the purposes and intent hereof."

That is all the wording on R&R's in its entirety. Kinda nebulous to me...
and gives the BOD an extraordinary, far-reaching amount of power.

I still believe that the Membership should be informed BEFORE any vote happens, but the documents are silent on that.

Gloria

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 11/04/2008 9:28 AM
"FURTHER RULES AND REGULATIONS. The Board of Directors by a two-thirds vote at a meeting at which a quorum is present, may from time to time adopt and approve such addtional rules and regulations concerning the use, occupancy and maintenance of, and activities conducted upon any Lot or improvements thereon on as it may deem necessary or desirable to clarify and supplement the provisions of this Article and such other pertinent provisions of this Declaration so as to promote the purposes and intent hereof."

That is all the wording on R&R's in its entirety. Kinda nebulous to me...
and gives the BOD an extraordinary, far-reaching amount of power.

I still believe that the Membership should be informed BEFORE any vote happens, but the documents are silent on that.

Gloria


I'd say the above language gives your BOD the power it seeks. As to notice, lacking any advice in your CCRs or state law stating so, whether they "should" give notice (which I'd agree they ought) isn't in play.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


I concur. I agree. YUP!
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
My own feeling is that writing a new set of rules and regulations without sending them for legal review is not advisable. In fact, I think it falls into the lame use of one's intellect category.

For that matter, as others have pointed out, legal review need not cost all that much. There is an organization in my area advertising that they have lawyer contacts that will do a review of changes for a flat $350.
DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Thanks for the info. If the Board must must give members 14 days notice BEFORE the Board votes to approve their rewrite of the new Rules and Regs, what is the purpose of that? If the Board posts a copy of it in the clubhouse, like they do for our board meeting agendas, it will go unnoticed by most who don't go to the clubhouse. What can happen during the 14 day period prior to the board vote, if only the board gets to approve or disapprove? Does this notice have to be mailed to all members? Seems like any new rules will be just as unenforceable as the old ones. And I totally agree that the association lawyer should be involved, but that is not going to happen. The President specifically stated that the board has the authority to do this. Our Property Manager CAM attended the board meeting when this was discussed, but it seems he does not advise our board, or say anything, when subjects like this come up. Thanks.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Dana,
From my own Board experiences, notification and posting of the Rules and Regs prior to the approval gives the membership the ability to address them at the meeting where they get approved or denied. Remember, this must be done at an open meeting for the membership.

There was one rule that the membership got really upset about concerning garage doors being required to be closed at all times other than ingress, egress and if the owner was doing work outside. Residents were adamently against this and spoke so at the meeting.

The Board in their infinite wisdom, deleted it from the R. and R.s so that is exactly why they are posted 14 days prior. Never say that anything is unchangable--NEVER!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Dana,

I just watched a political speech from last night and got all fired up.

Dana, you DO have the right to address the Board on the Rules and Regs. You DO have the right to have them consider a change. You DO have the right to challenge them, you and all of your members who disagree with them. Do not let anything go that you feel you and your neighbors cannot live with. Speak up, do it smartly and never accept anything that is not right.

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