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GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
The thread on management company costs raises an interesting issue about how one can compare association expenses from association to association and from year to year in the same association.

It seems to me that it makes sense to divide expenses into two main categories: overhead and operating.

Overhead would include those expenses necessary for the continued operation of an association itself. Overhead expenses might include liability insurance, management fees, legal fees, collection fees, taxes, annual association meeting expenses, board meeting expenses, corporate registration expenses, etc.

Operating expenses would include those expenses that provide a direct, visible, tangible benefit to association members. Operating expenses might include landscaping, water, social activities, newsletters/web sites, recreational facilities maintenance, common area/facility maintenance, concierge, rule/covenant enforcement etc.--basically, those things that the association was created to do in the first place.

Some line item expenses may need to be allocated to both categories. And, yes, there is overlap. Insurance for a swimming pool would be an operating expense, but D&O would be overhead. But let's not split hairs right now.

Based on that division, it could be possible to analyze the two category of expenses across associations (but within similar types). Indeed, property managers have easy access to such information and may already made such an analysis.

A more useful analysis that the association board and homeowners might look at is what is happening to each category of expenses over time, say the past 3-5 years. If overhead expenses as a proportion of total expenses is increasing, that may be reason for concern. Alternately, if operating expenses are increasing disproportionately, it may suggest it is time to look at contracts and the level of activities.

As a result of such an analysis it might be possible to establish "targets" or guidelines for each category of expenditures in future budgeting.

For instance the board could establish a policy that would specify a target that overhead expenses ought not exceed (say) 20 percent of total expenditures. Such a policy would provide guidance to officers and the management company in preparing a budget. If the target were exceeded, it would require careful analysis and explanation.

The point here is to create an analytical tool that tracks changes over time.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
The charitable, non-profit community has a similar set-up in determining program costs. Administrative costs should not exceed 20% of the total program. But you never really see that cost itemized in the program cost.

In charitable non profits, administrative fees are included into the program costs. So if a program to feed families pays an administrator to run the program, that is considered the program cost, NOT an administrative cost - when presented to the public in the Form 990.

So these charities that tout that they use 99% of their donations for programs are not telling you the entire story.

But, alas, it's all permitted in the reporting system.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
One thing that would be needed is to develop standards of reporting. As an example, a certain well known breast cancer fund raiser claims that 71% of the money goes direct to charity. But they exclude from the pot all the money paid to participate in the event.
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
George,

"For instance the board could establish a policy that would specify a target that overhead expenses ought not exceed (say) 20 percent of total expenditures. Such a policy would provide guidance to officers and the management company in preparing a budget. If the target were exceeded, it would require careful analysis and explanation."

I have no idea why you would bother with something like this. Can you enlighten me?

I look at all my costs as what they are. The only one that you don't really know and that can blow a budget out of whack fall under the heading of maintenance. You never know what might break that you will then need to fix.

To me every other line item I have the ability to know the price of when I plan my future budget.

Why do you feel you need a cap of 20% over certain types of expenses? I don't get it.

Dana
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
The thing is that you mentioned putting management into overhead because it "yields no tangible benefit." While I realize that many feel this way, if you have good management they yield a very high tangible benefit. The simple fact is that without inspections your overall neighborhood look will tend to drop. Most people don't see the benefit, but it is there.

The other thing is that the ratio would vary greatly depending on other amenities. For instance, it would take huge amounts of money before our management contract stop representing over a third of our expenses. We don't have a pool, or clubhouse.
GrahamO (Ontario)
Posts: 55
Posted:
George, I think your suggestion regarding setting “percent-of-total” or “ratios-of-one-to-another” falls clearly into the Pie Chart Fallacy group. Pie charts are “nice” but that’s about all. A pharmaceutical company has three pills … for headaches, lumbago, and arthritis. They calculate that they make up 20%, 30$ and 50% of their sales respectively. Next year they re-calculate the breakdown and find that the ratios have changed, to 30%,25% and 45% respectively. The headache pill manager crows about her great increase. BUT, what actually happened is that her sales stayed the same. It’s just that the others fell, resulting in an APPARENT improvement for the headache pills.

I have a lengthier (and more appropriate) example that I’ve written up that’s based on the use (the fallacious use) of setting reserve funding at a percentage of the operating expense budget. If anyone would like a copy they can contact me.

No, the best budget setting method by far is the line-item estimation approach which is usually based, at least somewhat, on recent historical actuals. I think Dana is bang-on. In my opinion the area that needs more attention than it usually gets, is the constant up-dating of actual costs compared to budgeted costs throughout the year to catch problems that are emerging. For reserve fund expenditures we recommend doing quarterly comparisons (and funding-fixes where necessary) to make sure that higher than anticipated expenditures get the attention they deserve.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Kirk, This is what I mean about splitting hairs. If professional management provides a tangible benefit, then go ahead and put it under operating expenses, not overhead expenses. The point here is not to debate how expenses are classified. If your association has a pool and other amenities, it makes a great deal of sense to classify management as an operating expense. The key for analysis is to make some sort of reasonable classification system and implement it consistently over time, so changes can be tracked.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Graham, if you are saying that normalized data is not a good tool for budgeting, I agree completely. I don't think I ever said it was.

The analysis of expenses is a way to introduce context into a discussion and into decision making. The analysis does not say a particular expenditure or group of expenditures is appropriate or not appropriate. It does not say that 19 percent is good and 21 percent is bad. It does not say $100 is a reasonable expense level and $102 is not reasonable.

Were I looking at the drug sales figures you used as an example, such an analysis would lead me to ask, "What is going on in the marketplace that results in such a change?" "Is this change a non-controllable one, based on market competition, or is this an internal problem with our sales staff?" "And, what does this change mean for how we allocate our manufacturing facilities in the future?" The normalized data provides context for asking questions and making policy decisions. For sure it is not the only way of looking at raw numbers.

And as far as funding capital reserves, based on a proportion of expenses or income, I agree completely with you. It makes no sense at all.
GrahamO (Ontario)
Posts: 55
Posted:
George -- I appreciate your comments. We're in agreement on most of it, and apart (a little) on some of it. I believe interdependent ratios and percentages (as in pie charts) should be completely thrown out the window. You believe they have huge limitations but that they could, at least be useful for provoking questions. And I agree that anything that generates questioning is a good thing, even if it's only for that reason alone. We should question everything much more often that we actually do.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
My post in more about analyzing PM bookkeeping method. I had requested copy of financial records. Got copy of yet to be approved 2009 budget, open invoices report(delinquent accounts), year-to-date data such as actuals vs. budget, and Profit & Loss report as of 8/31/08 but no Balance Sheet. P & L shows negative income.

Can any expert on this forum tell me what is customary these days??

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
George - back to your original question:
I think that the board should be looking at the cost(s) for each expenditure.

If an MC is charging too much in proportion to what it is actually doing, that needs to be caught by the Board. Another thread talked about his MC charging $45 an hour for staff to pick up trash around the complex. That is not cost effective.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusannaM on 11/06/2008 4:43 AM
My post in more about analyzing PM bookkeeping method. I had requested copy of financial records. Got copy of yet to be approved 2009 budget, open invoices report(delinquent accounts), year-to-date data such as actuals vs. budget, and Profit & Loss report as of 8/31/08 but no Balance Sheet. P & L shows negative income.

Can any expert on this forum tell me what is customary these days??


Susanna,

I cannot comment of what is "customary". However, I would suggest that when asking for financial records you specify exactly what records you want to inspect or obtain copies of. If you don't know what type report the info you want would contained in then state exactly what info you want to see.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
MaryA1, I can't get copies of what PM does not produce. What I got is what PM says she provides the board. Thus my question as to what other, better organized HOAs/Boards expect from PM.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Susanna, what the PM gave you was fine. You should be able to get your info from that (unless you really want to go inside EVERY line item to look at indivudual transactions, which I doubt will be allowed)

I am surprised that she gave you an unapproved budget, however.

You should ask for a Balance Sheet at the quarter's end. (Sept. 30)

Do you have specific questions?
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
SusanW, all members got a copy of the proposed budget at the 10/7 meeting. It passed but the Minutes from that meeting will not get "approved" until next meeting.

I've been asking for a Balance Sheet since July but I think PM does not understand this accounting concept. I'll keep trying.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Susanna,

First of all I'm not clear on exactly what the PM does. In most assn's that emply a mgmt co, the PM does not prepare the financial statements. This is done by the accounting dept of the mgmt co. The PM of my assn prepares a very professional bound "monthly board report" which contains the following info:

1) agenda
2) minutes of last open meeting
3) financial info consisting of following:
a) balance sheet and p & l statement for operations
b) balance sheet and p & l statement for reserves
c) a "Treasurer's Report & Variance Analysis" showing the consolidated balance sheet (operations and reserves combined)for the current month plus an income/expense variance analysis for the current month and also for YTD.
4) Management Report -- gives an update on all current projects. Report also includes any correspondence received and the architectural committee report. The A/C report shows the name & address of each h/o making a request; what the request if for and the date received and whether approved, pending and active. If the request is disapproved the info will be contained in the "executive" portion of the board report.
5) Statement of pending items -- items to be voted on at the current meeting or a future meeting. Also included is any supporting documentation for each agenda item.
6) Executive:
a) executive session agenda
b) executive session minutes of last meeting
c) delinquency status report
d) foreclosure accounts on watch -- this is a listing of bank foreclosure, showing whether the bank has taken possession,the home has been sold, the foreclosure has been cancelled, etc.
e) attorney status and review -- listing of all actions being handled by the HOA attorney and the status of each action
f) "aged owner balance" accounting; shows all delinquencies and whether over 30, over 60 or over 90 days delinquent
g) Violation Log - shows all violations YTD and the disposition
h) all correspondence recieved regarding CCR violations or delinquencies

I'm sure you will agree this is a very comprehensive report.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
Thanks Mary. Yes, I know PM does not necessarily prepare financial statements, however, PM should be well versed on this topic 'cause she/he attends meetings of the board.

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