Sprinkler system blowout and bankruptcies

Ok, those of you in Florida and possibly Kirk in Texas probably won't be able to relate to this.

We have a few homes in the neighborhood that have been empty all summer due to bankruptcies and the HOA has been paying a neighborhood kid to turn the water on/off and mow the grass so that the properties don't make the rest of the neighborhood look bad. It's now the time of year when everyone else is having their sprinkler systems blown out so that they don't freeze over the winter. Should we arrange for the lines to be blown out at these bankruptcy properties or just let them go and hope that there is somebody new by the time the water gets turned on next year?

Dwight,
I am from Wisconsin so I know the answer. IF you don't blow the empty house systems out, be prepaired to repair or replace them in April. It sure doesn't cost that much to have them done.

Is the bank holding the note not reponsible for any maintenance of the unit?

Dana

Brian - who said anything about free? This would be charged back to the property, just like we did for the kid that took care of mowing the lawn. These houses have been abandoned, and rather than let the properties go to seed and make the rest of the neighborhood look bad, we decided to do basic landscape maintenance: we had the lawns mowed once a week.

Dwight,
I think that I answered your question with--" IF you don't blow the empty house systems out, be prepaired to repair or replace them in April. It sure doesn't cost that much to have them done."

These properties are under forclosure and empty. Bill the lein holder. Surely the bank or lending institution knows that there are ongoing expenses for the properties.

i did not know you could charge to property. How do you get the property to pay? does it go to the next owner? If so, is that a likely selling point to the next owner? hey, the price is good on the house, but you owe $1200 to the HOA for mowing the lawn last year when you weren't here, and for shovelling the snow in the winter when you weren't here, etc... does that really work?

as for bankruptcy, remember: once a person files, all previous debts are on hold, pending the courts decision. However, all NEW debts are not covered, and nicely, pretty safe for 7 years... cause you can't declare again and get out of them. (that's why company's are more than happy to give (a little) credit to recent bankrupt filers.. they know that this time, they can't get out of it!)

So, nail the guy from the first day after he files... it's all tortable, i believe.

Dwight - see http://www.greentouchirrigation.com/Winterize_your_Sprinkler_System.html

It talks about other methods of winterizing sprinkler lines.

Donna - hope I didn't come off as argumentative. That wasn't my intention. Had a long day yesterday.

I started this thread because yesterday we were contacted by a guy who was offering to blow out the lines at all of the abandoned properties for a discounted price if the HOA would pay for them all at once. As I mentioned, my initial thought was no, not our problem. But again, if the properties have not sold by next summer, we still won't want to have dead lawns scattered around the neighborhood, so it might be worth it so that we can keep the grass green. As Donna mentioned, it isn't that expensive.

This isn't about free maintenance for somebody. Regardless of whether or not we ever collect on these charges (and yes we are working on that) my question was more on the lines of how much effort do we want to put in to just keeping the grass green.

dwight

does the HOA have legal permission to enter these properties? Is the HOA setting itself up in any way for potential liability? Rock from the lawnmower hits a window, or damages a car. the mower trips while mowing and injures himself?

Would hate to see a lawsuit or criminal case for trespassing destroy the good intentions of the HOA.

Our CC&Rs do explicitly state "The Association will have the right to maintain the yard and landscaping if it is not maintained. Costs incurred by the Association in connection with such maintenance will become a Limited Assessment."

Normally if the home was occupied I still wouldn't try to enter the property for that purpose without a court order and probably a police escort. But since these properties have been abandoned since last April, I don't think we will need to worry about any residents getting upset.

As for the "potential liability", that's what we have insurance for. I've discussed this with our agent and he said that we would be covered for any actual damages (the rock from the lawnmower) and any potential claims from the owner.

I doubt if we will ever hear anything from this owner though. He has over $69 Million in debt and lots of contractors who are very angry with him. As for contacting the owner and offering to take care of it, when we tried to contact him to let him know that we would start mowing the lawn if he didn't, his attorney sent us the bluff-and-bluster letter threatening us with legal action for violating the bankruptcy order.

Guys, our CC&Rs have that wording, too.

However, both our insurance company AND several attorneys over the years have STRONGLY (emphasis on STRONGLY) recommended we NOT enter ANY private property for ANY CC&R correction or "maintenance" issues unless 1) we have a court order, or 2) we have written permission from the homeowner, or 3) there is an emergency situation where personal injury is imminent.

We did have a court order in one case, and were able to enter a property with a sheriff and animal control officer in tow.

We have a situation now where some trees have fallen in a yard where the residents have moved to Texas. Some residents are getting all irate because it's an "eyesore," however, again, BOTH our insurance company AND our attorney does not recommend we enter the property to remove it without going through a process of due diligence in trying to get written permission from the resident.

The LAST thing we need is for there to be some vandalism of some sort to the home (or even some unknown damage from the storms) and the resident come back on the HOA and hold us responsible for the damage.

At any rate, as usual, your mileage may vary. If your attorney and insurance company say no big deal, go for. We sure wouldn't do it without exhausting all sorts of due diligence in obtaining permission, or obtaining a court order in lieu of that permission.

It's the same reason we don't just tow cars in violation of our parking restrictions, even though our CC&Rs say we can. We get a court order first.

The one nagging issue here is that all of the sprinklers are connected to the main one which is HOA owned. Therefore the HOA maintains and replaces them on any area where they are connected which would mean that failure to blow out an individual line could result in the main system failing. I believe that the HOA has the right to ensure that all lines are taken care of--with or without owner approval. Just because a common line is on an individual lot, does not allow said owner to prohibit maintenance. In the case of an empty unit, the HOA now has to enter the lot without permission for maintenance to a common element.

Got clobbered with the can't relate again. In our neighborhood (and all in the area as far as I know) the water main is owned by the city. The thought of trusting the HOA to deal properly with streets, and water mains, and sewer is just beyond what I think I could do. I am certain I would not consider such without the neighborhood having been self controlled for a couple years or more.