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CherylD (Massachusetts)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Says in bylaws if a quorum is present by the unit owners then a board member can be fired with cause as long as its in writing. The cause is silent. No further information is on it. What would be a "legitimate cause"
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Cheryl,

Florida Statutes say ---"WITH OR WITHOUT CAUSE" so make sure that Mass. laws are followed if there are any.

Cause to recall? Well, being negligent in performance of duty., not showing up for meetings, going against all of the other directors and officers, not following the documents, drunk and disorderly, being a real knothead, fraud, stealing from HOA, being argumentive, conflict of interest---shall I go on? There might be another hundred reasons but if you follow the requirements from your bylaws on recalling a Director,it seems that thye give the membership the power to recall.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
It's easier said than done...no matter what state you are in.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Board members don't get "firred" - they get removed or recalled.

That board member deserves a hearing - held in Executive Session - IF he/she requests it. That meeting should be to state why the person is being removed and so that the person can make a response to the charge - IF he/she wants to - before the vote of the board.

However, "With or without cause" means that a majority vote of the other board members is needed to remove OR majority vote by the members, if the documents say removal has to be by the resident-members.

Removing a member of the board should not be done lightly, and IMO, that board member deserves some repect and an opportunity to answer any accusations. That "without cause" is very harsh.

CherylD (Massachusetts)
Posts: 9
Posted:
We need new blood. The board members and the property management have not changed in 15years and our place is going down hill. We need new blood. They don't care about the assoc. and they let the property management run the board and the grounds.
CherylD (Massachusetts)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I'm not targeting one person in particular. There are 4 of them. I would like one of them to step down or be forced to so someone new who's excited will take their place.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Oh Cheryl,
That is pretty lame. Asking for someone who is more exciting could give you more than you asked for. Unless they are not performing their duties as Board members,
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Instead of trying to fire one of the members, you really should look to elect in new blood at the next annual meeting. Remember, your membership elected these people. By the way, do you plan on running?
CherylD (Massachusetts)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
Ok, then this brings me to my next question:
2 of them - they're term is not up until 1/2010 do I have to wait until then or can I elect new people at the end of this year. Condo Docs state elections are held in the First meeting of the year. But does this mean I can only change their title from AVP to officer so it expires sooner?
CherylD (Massachusetts)
Posts: 9
Posted:
They do not do their job. I don't even think they are aware of their titles as AVP and Tresurer. loll They show up at the meetings which are held by the property management and let them run the meetings. They bearly speak more then two words the entire meeting and thats why the board keeps reelecting them. They have given so much power to the property management that I refer to them as puppets. The PM is now the board and the custodian..
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CherylD on 10/15/2008 7:09 AM
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
Ok, then this brings me to my next question:
2 of them - they're term is not up until 1/2010 do I have to wait until then or can I elect new people at the end of this year. Condo Docs state elections are held in the First meeting of the year. But does this mean I can only change their title from AVP to officer so it expires sooner?

Cheryl,

I recall another thread of yours in which I suggest getting rid of this "entrenched" board!

Your only recourse in getting rid of the 2 board members whose terms do not expire until 2010 is to try to have them recalled. You cannot elect someone to take the place of a board member whose term has not expired. As for the other board members whose terms are up, find others willing to serve to run for their positions. Since these board members have been in office for 15 years, I detect a fair amount of apathy in your assn -- not unusual. SO, it may be difficult getting qualified people to run for a position.

If your assn is like the majority whereby the members elect the directors and the directors, in turn, choose among themselves who will serve in the officer capacities, then the officers may be removed from their positions but this has nothing to do with when their term on the board expires. However, it takes a majority vote of the board members to make these changes; you can't do it yourself. The best plan would be to unseat those board members whose terms are up at the end of this year. If that doesn't work then get other interested members to help you mount a recall for the other 2 whose terms aren't up until 2010.

Good luck!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Cheryl,

I am having some trouble with how you are posting to us. Why is this all about you?

""do I have to wait until then or can I elect new people at the end of this year. Condo Docs state elections are held in the First meeting of the year. But does this mean I can only change their title from AVP to officer so it expires sooner?

You used 3 "I" in your sentence. Are you a membership of one? Where are the other members and how do they feel?
CherylD (Massachusetts)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I'm leading it. And I don't know. I got one persons ear on the board and they are backing me up. I have a meeting with the 3rd board member on Monday next week. I don't know if it will go well or not. So I'm gathering all facts and any information before I give the presentation to the others. I want all MY I's dotted and T's crossed before doing so. This isn't easy.
ArtN (Massachusetts)
Posts: 48
Posted:
Cheryl, I live in Massachusetts and live in an Association similar to yours, Board members have been figure heads, allowing the Management company to dictate and if the management does not get work projects, they sit on their thumbs and when asked why they are not doing something the Board asked them to do, their remarks are it is up to the Board.......you gussed it, nothing gets done.

Cheryl check out Mass. Condo State law 183A which can be download from the internet. I believe it so states a Board memember may be removed without Cause.....Also a major problem is that Mass State Laws do not dictate Open Meetings at Board of Trustee monthly meetings, there is a Senate Bill 769 sitting waiting for our politicians to bring it to the floor for two years now.
RichardB10 (New York)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Chryl,
I know all about your frustration. I am on a BOD with entrenched OLD BOYS CLUB attitude and nothing gets done because the pres is equivalent to the villiage idiot and looks for the PM to tell him what and when to do it. In fact the PM arranged to have a dying secretary resign about 5 days prior to mher death so he could nominate from the floor a person to fill her job. What a travesty. But then again apathy rules the community
Rich
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Cheryl - there is no such thing as "without cause" and if you are leading a recall, you better have GOOD reasons for recalling a board other than you want more exciting people on the board. You were given a list of ideas for reasons for recall. If they don't fit, then it's about personalities and managment style - which are too "soft" reasons for getting rid of board members.

If you lead a coup, make sure you have the votes to be successful.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 10/15/2008 5:26 PM

If you lead a coup, make sure you have the votes to be successful.

If you lead a coup be sure you have the people willing to step up and participate.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Or-
If you attack the Queen, be sure she is left dead.
LeeB1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 10/16/2008 8:49 AM
Or-
If you attack the Queen, be sure she is left dead.

I like this response,we are having a similiar problem,only our potential recall of this member wants to be the Queen.
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Cheryl,

We recalled our board last December. Board is usually a board of seven but at the time had six. None of the six of them wanted to get off without a fight. We had an owner act as a moderator between the board and the owner that was behind the recall. The board said they would stay on. The removal meeting was scheduled and held. The President and Treasurer were removed and two others that were up for re-election the same night then withdrew their names, the last two resigned within a week. The cost to the association by the ousted board in attorney fees in trying to keep them in and for the attorney to run the meeting? $4,000. Why they didn't just step down with the "free" moderator meeting I'll never know.

Our documents state that they can be removed with or without cause. An owner made the motion for removal, a second was made, and the attorney asked for a vote but an owner stated he would like to say why they should be removed and it went from there.

I gave out nothing but facts at the removal meeting. Examples of all their failures. All they did was attack me personally, with the attorney holding them back. It was quite humorous. But even with that? The vote to remove them was extremely close and the vote was only to remove the worst two.

We started the new year with 5 board members. Two of us do almost all the work, one of the new ones moved, we got two more on. Guess what? The two new ones have the same mentality of the old board. Keep fees low, don't do any maintenance. Every topic that comes up they compare to their unit. It's scary.

You can kick the old ones out but be prepared to do a lot of work yourself.

I feel your pain.

And now the work before the new board is incredible. Especially in the area of finances; trying to make up for 24 years of budget shortfalls is quite difficult.

Good luck!

Dana
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Dana - after every motion, there is a time for debate. Sounds like yours was quite lively!

It takes a long time to turn around a ship, so just keep working to get things in shape and good luck.

Slow and steady wins the race.
FrancescaM (Washington)
Posts: 264
Posted:
wow... our documents HAVE no method of removal except by 51% of homeowners..... the homeowner's can recall a board member.. nobody else.
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Francis,

Our removal is by owners unless the board member "steps down" which is what we had hoped they old board would do at the meeting with the moderator.

You have to understand that in any association you can end up with board members that are on forever. Why? Because of owner apathy; no one else offers to step up to the plate. After a while these same board members get so entrenched with their closed way of thinking they forget what the masses want and just start to assume that they "know better than" the owners they represent.

Quick story, we used to have speed bumps; the cheap rubber ones that everyone hates. The board decided not to put them out anymore. One owner (not me) went to a meeting and complained. The President stated that the "majority" of owners didn't want them. So.......... I went door to door with a petition to have them put in. Guess what, the "majority" did want them because they signed my petition to put them in. Once that was brought to the board, the next minutes to come out stated that the speed bumps still wouldn't be put out due to the fact that the board couldn't "find the speedbumps". But you get my point, once the board assumes they know what the masses want without really knowing is when the trouble starts.

The would not put names to dissenting votes. How do you elect someone back to the board if you don't know how they voted while they were on it? Not that they ever really had dissenting votes due to the fact that the leaders of the board would say things and the followers would just buy everything that came out of thier mouths because the followers were too lazy to research anything themselves.

Remember this..........your condo owners apathy with failure to be invovled in association affairs just mirrors how your town government is run, your state government, and the national government.

The election coming up shows this............we have a trillion dollar deficit, we just added a $750 billion dollar addition and these two candidates are talking about cutting taxes, i.e. the association's income. How is that going to pay off the debt? Sorry, didn't mean to get into politics outside of the associations here but the irony speaks for itself.

I will start a new post concerning budgets.

Dana
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Sorry about calling you "Francis" Francesca.

My apologies.

Dana

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