Should HOA s even exist?

Every day I'm hearing push back from legislators, home buyers and realtors about the very concept of Home Owners Associations. Many buyers are starting to look at HOAs like a disease. Many don't want the added expense, intrusion or bothersome restrictions. Many just want the freedom to paint their home in the colours of their own choice. Many see HOA Borads as a bunch of grade school hall monitors or worse.

Legislators are begining to treat HOA's as apest established by developers to protect their investors. Just the topic HOA's send legislators running to the hills. Judges consider HOAs to be a major source of Heart Burn and wish they had never been invented.

Realtors say, "HOAs are fast becoming the White Elephant of the Sales World". Sales are slumping and HOAs are helping the trend. Why? See the first paragraph.

Please note in the last year I've seen three HOAs die from lack of interest.

I think you have posted an observation that is certain to stimulate a number of responses.

The notion of a homeowners association is an ongoing social and legal experiment in private pseudo self government that has yet to reach its peak. As an experiment in progress, and I would opine that it will continue to evolve before settling into a acceptable level of comfort in our culture.

There is definite value to homeowners associations. But they are fraught with challenges in seeking to establish a balance between individual and property rights and the common good.

There are huge differences between a high rise condo association and a single family suburban development homeowners association. And there are significant size differences. What works for a community association of 15 urban townhouses, does not work well for a mega association with thousands of individual homes.

As I have observed earlier, most homeowners associations are first and foremost created by a developer to maximize profits and only secondarily to cater to a desire by purchasers to live in a covenant controlled community (with or without amenities). Although I do not have the data yet to back up my observation, it appears that there are very few, if any, newly developed communities in Hoosierland that do not have covenant restrictions with a homeowners association in tow.

I doubt that many who are looking for a home specify that it must be in a covenanted community with a homeowners association. And, more often than not, deed restrictions and rules and regulations are not carefully understood nor considered by prospective purchasers. I have researched and reviewed covenant declarations that range from five pages to 63 pages in length. I would suspect that many such documents are first presented to purchasers at closing.

I too see a growing unease with homeowners associations by both the legislative and judicial arms of government. I would guess that much of that discomfort stems from the growing discontent of residents when the balance is tipped in favor of the community, and a sense by legislative and judicial leaders that there are no easily evident solutions to the problems. There is also the problem of a lack of adequate and accessible checks and balances on association governing boards. At the same time, one cannot ignore the homeowner that is intent on deliberately violating the covenants and rules in a vain attempt to assert individual property rights.

The future is clearly going to involve more statutory regulation of homeowners associations.

I do wish you would cite your sources for the quotation and the other factual part of your post.

I should have added that a sales offer has the "Disclosure" sheet to sign and that is where the HOA statement is written for everyone to be aware that indeed, this is a HOA. Then it is up to the agent to retreive the docs for reviewing.

When we were looking to purchase a home, we received a State of S.C. Residential Property Condition Disclosure Statement when we got to that point in the buying process but, even before that HOA dues were listed on the spec. sheet we received. Along with condition of roof and septic system, etc., was the question "Owners' association fees or "common area" expenses or assessments." The seller checks "yes" and adds the HOA dues under comments at the bottom of the page. The seller signs this document and so does the potential buyer.

I, myself, would never live in a neighborhood without covenant restrictions.

AZ has laws that require a potential buyer be given certain info along with copies of the gov. docs. w/i 10 after receipt of written notice of a pending sale. Also required is to provide a statement, which must be signed by the purchaser and returned to the assn w/i 14 days. The statement reads:

"I hereby acknowledge that the declaration, bylaws and rules of the assn constitute a contract between the assn and me (the purchaser). By signing this statement, I acknowledge that I have read and understand the assn's contract with me (the purchaser). I also understand that as a matter of AZ law, if I fail to pay my assn assessments, the assn may foreclose on my property."

If purchasing a new home, the builder is required to give the potential buyer a copy of the public report and the gov. docs. and the purchase contract cannot be signed until the buyer acknowledges receipt of these docs.

Many cities in AZ (most in the Phx area) are now requiring developers to form an HOA. In Glendale the rule is an HOA must be formed for all new s/d's that have a retention area, which is probably 99% of the s/d's! The retention areas were mandated by Maricopa Co. a number of years ago to catch runoff of rainwater (as part of the 100 yr flood plan). So when Michelle and others say, you have a choice not to purchase in an HOA, it's a very misleading statement. Unless you want to purchase an older home (at least 15 yrs old or more), there is hardly any choice involved. As years go by the choice becomes less and less.

Free country. Capitalism. Buy somewhere else if you don't like it.

Denny Crane.

Thanks for all the responses to this question. I see now that each views the question through their own eyes and experience. Yet, this question must be answered through the perspective of Benefits Versus Burdens. In my community the Board encourages members to submit snitch sheets on their neighbors if they think that a neighbor has planted flower from a 1 gal. pot instead of a required 5 gal. pot. These snitch sheets are secret end up being used as weapons in neighbor cat fights. Some less employed persons walk around the neighoods filling out these snitch sheets just to have something to do. (If anyone's interested I will be glad to Email a copy.)
Question is this or a burden to the community?

Now as far as the death of these HOAs, they all died in Redmond, Wa's Union Hill area.

As far as the protection of developer's assets-Read the AARP's document on HOAs. It has documented the history of HOAs and clearly states that HOAs usually start on the basis of protecting the viability of golf courses, Swimming Clubs (Mission Viejo), Tennis club or a club house. In my case all the above. In apartment style homes it could be something else.

This intense interest in protecting amentities is expressed in the CCRs to the point that it weiighs 3lbs and that includes being printed on both sides.

Darlene,

Well, you sure paint a glum picture. Your post is so very generalized and I beg to differ with you. There are far more well run HOAs than there are bad ones. It sounds to me like you are a disgruntled homeowner who has had a bad experience. I am sorry for that but do not blame all HOA and the State. The State is far ahead of most other States due to members being in Tallahassee every year, whipping the legislature until they get some headway on the needs of the Statutes to keep up with changes in living in a HOA situation.

The system now tries to avoid the courts and has mediation required. We have reasonably good ombudsmen who arbritate and mediate. But a huge problem is the mentality of so many folks that refuse to follow the rules and other documents of the communities that they bought into. So many people from other parts of the country who never heard of a HOA.

It is not a perfect system but buy into a non HOA community where Joe Schmo builds a shed and parks a trailer along side of the boat, on another trailer, then puts up a crooked wooden fence to hide the mess.

You say that I am a homeowner who shouldn't have bought into a community in which we didn't like the CC&Rs. Well, that is very funny because we bought in the same community TWICE!

The first time the HOA was run by a BOD that used the CC&Rs the way they were written and wasn't power hungry and litigation happy. We moved back after a change in jobs. How things had changed with a new BOD, the wonderful neighborhood had changed drastically. Neighbors cease to socialize with each other, rules are made up and voted on at secret meetings, the Florida Statutes are not followed and in order to change anything, it will cost a great deal in legal fees. We don't believe this is the way to settle disputes and neither do our neighbors, so the secretative nature and lies continue. Most neighbors just do what the new BOD tells them in order to avoid legal expenditures.

I guess my generalizations come from the fact that in Florida when the BOD and HOA's run amuck, you cannot find a lawyer who will go against the lawyers that the associations have used. It is way more costly for an individual to prove that the BOD's are running the HOAs incorrectly, with fraud and abuse. Many cases take forever to even get before a judge.

Don't even suggest running for the BOD since they stack the votes AND most of us have a life and don't have time to get involved in how to control the neighborhood. Not to mention that most of us have real jobs to consider with family obligations and cannot be tied down with constant problems over watering of lawns or what type of fence is placed on these properties. I have also talked with other people in communities where homeowners are told they cannot park their vehicles in their driveways because they have advertisements on them. Please!!! Don't we have better things to worry about. The associations end up losing, but in the long run, we all do because it is our money running the associations. These associations don't have any money, it's our money! So when the associations end up losing, so do we.

I know that our association has had nothing but the same people on the BOD because of the lies that have been told and the way that the BOD has been run in the past. Many don't even vote because the votes have been stacked. It just isn't worth spending the money to prove they are wrong. Much less the time to constantly visit a lawyer.

Our CC&Rs are expired by MRTA (Marketable Record Title Act for those that don't know what that stands for) and they lie that there is no such thing to the members of the community. The BOD continually threatens and bullies people into their interpretation of the CC&RS and By-Laws and many neighbors just stick their heads in the sand because they don't want to spend the money to defend themselves. Much less the fact that the neighbors would be paying twice since we all pay for the representation of the BOD.

So you see, all it takes is the BOD of a bad run HOA to change the wonderful communities for the worse and make living in them miserable. Read all of the problems with associations on www.ccfj.net and you'll see that we are certainly not the only association that is continually run bad!!!

We did get involved and it cost us a great deal of money only to find out that the BOD backed down never admitting they were wrong to the community and the money was spent for NOTHING, both ours and the HOAs (which is ours also). It is very difficult to inform over 100 owners when only 5-8 people even attend the meetings. Sending out mailings becomes expensive and again, these people lie.

Apathy!! No, we actually have lives that include 3 children (with outside activities that want our involvement), 2 jobs (that want more than 40 hours per week), almost 5-10 acres per property (and the maintenance that goes with it) and meeting with lawyers who don't seem to want to do anything but rack up the legal fees.

It's not apathy, it's lives that we live on a daily basis and don't have time to prove to everyone in the neighborhood that these few power-hungry people lie and bully to get what they want because they don't have anything better to do daily but worry about what color a house is painted or whether a car is parked in the drive that has a sign on it. Look at most communities and they are run by people who don't have much else going on in their lives. Most people maintain their houses and properties because they are proud of what they own. The very few that don't will not bring down the value of homes next to them.

www.ccfj.net is not far left or far away from the truth. Just look at your website and see all of the problems that these communities deal with on a DAILY basis. Just look at the small problems that seem huge to these people who try to control the lives of the people in these communities. In today's marketplace, foreclosures are bringing down the house values way faster than what color a house is painted or whether someone's grass is watered.

How dare the HOA have the effrontery to kick these poor, poor people out! Why they should have let them live there forever without paying their HOA fees. Don't those idiot BOD members know HOA's are really charitable organizations? While the article doesn't say whether or not the wife and 16 year-old work; it does mention that they have two adult children who evidently couldn't be bothered to help mom and pop out but the HOA is the bad guy for not supporting them?

With apologies to Pastor Martin Niemoller who said it first, about a much more insidious menace than a supposedly out of control HOA Board.

When the HOA Board came for the brown lawns,
I remained silent;
I did not have a brown lawn.

When they cited the parking violators,
I remained silent;
I was not a parking violator.

When they came for the sheds,
I did not speak out;
I did not have a shed.

When they came for the people who painted the wrong shade,
I remained silent;
I did not have the wrong shade.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

The sad fact is that the only reason bad Boards flourish is that people can't be bothered to "waste" an hour or two a month to attend the BOD meeting; let alone an hour or two a year to attend the annual meeting. The annual meeting where if not enough people attend, the same people keep their BOD positions much like how the same clowns are re-elected to Washington, year after year. The same people who decide how your money is spent and what policies are put in place. But hey you have a busy life and as long as they leave you alone, it is soooo much easier to write a check and let others deal with it. Besides, the BOD meetings are held on Thursday and you might not get home in time to watch Survivor.

Thank You Michelle for that serious rant. Those of us who are Board members, who have full time jobs, who raise kids in between our taking care of our lives and families and still find time to VOLUNTEER in our communities, are not power hungry Board members who just need applause and crowns of glory. We are the ones who step up to the plate, taking on thankless jobs that apathetic members of the association seem to be fast to criticize but never stand in line to be of help. I hear the word "sue" oh so often on this site. Is it ever Board members doing the yelling? NEVER! It's the guys who park where they shouldn't, don't pay dues, build where they shouldn't, and basically don't seem to be able to follow what the documents tell them to do.

Boards are just keepers of the associations. Documents are vague at best and need interpretation which does not always make everyone happy. States try to clarify what the limits are for Boards. They don't always succeed so there is work to do but with such attitudes as has been posted above, makes me want to get in someones face and make the message very clear, that your association is only as good as those who work for it.
Thanks so much, Donna

I take no personal offense to any of the comments made here. However, maybe your BOD runs the way that a BOD should run an HOA, but many and I repeat many DON'T. Just look at your own website. Then look at this one:

You say that we should find time to be a part of the changes to make it better. We tried only to find that the only people who vote are the ones who run the BOD. You say attend the meetings, we did only to find that they will not let anyone speak because they believe that the Florida Statutes DON'T apply to them (the BOD says that the Florida Statutes don't apply to the HOA's that they only need to listen to the Sunshine Laws, whatever they are).

You say to get a lawyer involved. We went to 5 different lawyers only to find that they will not go against the major law firms representing the HOA's. We finally found ONLY one who will go against them. Then the BOD backed down.

You say take them to arbitration. We went to arbitration only to hear the arbitrator warn us that we will need to spend upward of $50,000 only to determine that the BOD has more money and may back down and the money is lost (AGAIN, that's exactly what happened). The BOD lies to the neighbors about the legal fees being spent.

You say get other neighbors involved and active. We did and many don't have the $50,000 plus to spend with the economy the way it is. We spent our own money to find that the BOD dropped the case, conceded, but did not tell anyone in the HOA and never got to court. That's again, after our money was already spent representing both sides!!

You say that maybe the CC&Rs are correct with cars that have writing on them. Well, Mr. You Should NOT Have Writing on your cars, YOU WERE WRONG AND THE COURTS ALREADY PROVED THAT THE WRITING CAN BE ON THE CARS AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT WORK VEHICLES. MAYBE YOU SHOULD READ SOME OF THE CASES THAT HAVE BEEN WON. People like you are the ones interpreting these CC&Rs with their own interpretation, likes and dislikes! THE BOD'S ARE BULLYING PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY INTERPRET AS CORRECT. Even though these people won and can park their cars in their driveways but, they spent needless money on lawyers defending their rights. However, because the own money goes to the HOA also, they really lost! Don't tell me these BOD's don't use their interpretations instead of what is lawful.

We were sued about our fencing spending upward to over $10,000 and counting. We lived in the same community prior to the change in the BOD and had the same fencing approved on TWO OTHER PROPERTIES in the same development (93 homes on 5-10 acre lots). We tried to have the fencing approved for our horses on our new property when we came back and the new BOD said they didn't like it. WELL, IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT!!!

Our CC&Rs clearly state "wood only construction", no design specifications and no color specifications. We took pictures of over 20 properties with different fencing designs many of which are not "wood only construction" and defended ourselves. THE CC&Rs clearly state no design or color because the building didn't care when he was setting up the community, nor did any previous BOD care.

We tried to reason with the BOD about the fencing. They began to implementing guidelines and rules without any votes and/or announcement of the meetings where the vote would take place. The new BOD sent out the new guidelines and rules to every homeowner saying they are at liberty to vote them in as a BOD. Many owners don't know what their rights are, don't want to fight or get involved, so they just believe that the BOD has the right to develop and vote new guidelines to be followed by everyone. Even going so far as to tell the neighbors in our old homes that they must change the fencing on their properties to be in compliance. After the BOD backed down, because their lawyer said that they would probably lose in court, they sent around a letter stating that current fencing was OK, but new fencing must be according to what they decided including repaired fencing.

Then someone tells me that 1 hour per month is all it takes and we should all find that time. Well this BOD is all retired men and they have held meetings during the day, 3-4 times a week, and without any announcements, saying Florida Statutes don't apply to them! Apparently, our BOD has run AMUCK!!!

Who do you go to with these problems? Court???? Again, spending money only to have them back down????? Tallahasee???? We've tried with many neighbors. Overturn the people on the BOD, the votes are stacked and unless others are involved, they don't care. Selective enforcement is rampid on many of our restrictions and again, our CC&Rs have expired based on MRTA and no one believes it because the BOD tells everyone that MRTA doesn't apply to our CC&Rs because of an automatic renewal clause.

We talked with Tallahasee and they tell us that the Community Affairs Division (the Division supposedly responsible for ensuring that the HOA's are run properly with accordance to the Florida Statutes) and they tell us that they are too busy and cannot possibly deal with ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT COME THEIR WAY FROM HOA's. So Florida is great about setting up Statutes, but there is no oversight. We were told they simply cannot ensure that these laws are followed.

So don't tell me about laws or how to work within the guidelines of a properly run HOA's. Look at your own website and see how many problems come up daily. How do you get a management company to run them properly? How do you get people to follow the rules? On and on, problem after problem.

Yes, I'm jaded, but it is from spending upward of 10-15+ hours a week for over 2 years canvasing laws and meeting with lawyers only to find out that there simply isn't anyone representing the homeowners in their problems. Courts don't want to hear it.

As someone else mentioned, it's almost impossible to find a home not in an HOA in Florida. Yes, we like having a nice neighborhood, but at what cost. So don't tell me that we are apathetic!! We've been involved, we've been to lawyers, we've been to Tallahasee!! We've tried to ensure that the laws are followed, only to find the courts are over burdened with these problems!!

Do you need an HOA's? I can have an opinion based on the FACTS. There is no oversight!! Homeowners must acquiesce and follow the BOD's running of the HOA's until the problem becomes theirs. Then it's costly to fight ill-run HOA's because homeowners simply cannot afford it.

That's the typical HOA.

again, I disagree wholeheartedly and while I believe there are rogue boards, I will continue to stand by the claim that THOSE are the ones in the minority.

At least they are here in my neck of the woods.

We have had 5 or 10 fold increases in HOAs and COAs here in Kentucky in general and in our municipality in specific.

VERY few have boards of the sort you describe.

I stand by HOAs. I will always stand by them. You come from your bias, and you are welcome to it.

But we will just have to continue to agree to disagree.

And I find internet communities that are anti-HOA to be replete with skewed and, quite frankly, bogus and self-serving claims.

This particular board is a place for neighborhood leaders to discuss the challenges and opportunities within HOAs. It's not a place to bash boards or tear down HOA/COA leaders or to find "loopholes" in governing documents.

You can keep that and you guys can stroke each other and compare battle scars over there.

I prefer to remain over on a board that helps us address the challenges inherent in any organization that involves humans.

I think we do good work here; I think we provide help and perspective.

I think this is fodder for the argument that associations are created for the benefit of the developer and only secondarily for the benefit of the ultimate homeowners.

And, it is fodder for the notion that associations are indeed, private pseudo governments.

It also demonstrates, once again, that new development does not spread the tax base leading to lower taxes for everyone. New residential development increases the demand for governmental services and infrastructure well beyond what it brings in in additional taxes.

George, you keep calling HOA's pseudo governments. What governmental powers do they possess?

That they can make and pass rules that you must follow? So does practically every other business and social club in America. Ever read the conditions of use statement that comes along with your credit card?

That to enjoy the benefits of belonging you must join them and pay a fee? Ever heard of Sam's Club or Costco? Not to mention private social clubs, country clubs etc.

That they can fine you for not following the rules? That power is also enjoyed by private clubs and fraternal organizations. Not to mention the fines (fees) imposed by other businesses for violating their rules.

That they can foreclose on your property if you don't pay your assessments? So can banks and other mortgage lenders.

While according to our CC&R's we have the power of annexation; we can't do it by eminent domain, we have to purchase the property with the consent of every homeowner qualified to cast a vote. An HOA cannot declare or wage war. An HOA cannot print money. While An HOA can cause someone to be arrested, it has no police powers to arrest and imprison anyone.

I will grant that HOA's are a unique form of business with special rules not applicable to other businesses. Other businesses also fall into unique categories but that doesn't make them pseudo governments either.

Glen, I think it serves little purpose to debate the idea of private government here. Let me refer you to a classic in the literature from the 1944 Powell Foundation Lectures at Indiana University, Public and Private Government by Charles E. Merriam published by Yale University Press. I believe the text may even be on line somewhere.

Also, you may want to review a more recent 2001 article from the University of Michigan Law School, "The Constitutional Rights of Private Government," by Roderick M. Hills. (Michigan Law and Economics Research Paper No. 01-002) In that working paper, Mr. Hills define private governments as:

"any private organizations or institutions (parents, churches, non-profits, unions, for-profit firms, etc.) that can use their control over property, membership, or employment to influence their members."

I agree, in a properly run government, with input and reasoning from all involved, it can work.

However, as I mentioned previously, many are run by power hungry people who want to impose their feelings and interpretations of the CC&RS and By-Laws to all who live in them. Cookie cutter neighborhoods will always have problems with personal taste and agendas of those who run for the open offices on BOD's of many HOA's. Those people usually have a great deal of time on their hands and know that they won't personally be held liable for any monies spent. They KNOW there is no oversight!

Arbitration doesn't work!! Many homeowners back down because they find out how much it will cost to actually defend themselves. We were told this by an arbitrator who does cases weekly. He informed us that many many of the cases he hears are simply decided because the homeowner gets queasy when they hear what they may have put up front monetarily, and how long it may actually take to contest the beast (HOA) because the arbitrators can only make a decision that may or may not be binding. Most arbitrators meet with the same lawyers day after day and know how their "bread is buttered" so to speak. How do you think most of them will rule? Then if a homeowner must prove they are correct, they must continue into court spending more money.

To actually get a BOD to follow the laws (Florida Statutes) what do you do? Who will help? How do you get them to listen? Who is on your side when there is a rogue board? Just like the reason the Boston Tea Party was started, "Taxation Without Representation." We pay the dues and have no recourse when it comes to a dispute. More fees, fines, legal expenditures? Who helps the homeowner who can't afford a lawyer? Who is on the homeowner's side when there is a discrepancy in the interpretation of the CC&RS and By-Laws? The HOA's use their 100 lb. gorilla to bully homeowners because it's not their personal money.

You say that many homeowners don't get involved, in our HOA, they don't get involved because they simply can't AFFORD IT. HOA's become oligopolies!

I agree with the thrust of your arguments, Darlene. I have observed elsewhere that boards tend to attract people who have a desire to control rather than serve. Not all board members are like that, but the ones that are create disharmony.

Alternative dispute resolution methods need to be accessible, quick and cheap for both sides. Unfortunately, they become overrun with lawyers. In fact, mediation/arbitration processes are set up by lawyers themselves. We need something more along the lines of small claims courts. We need a process that gets the lawyers out of the picture.

For Indiana, I would like to see the Attorney General's Office of Consumer Protection take over the regulation, mediation and arbitration of homeowners associations. They do a good job looking at for the consumer. A fee of $4.00 per unit per year would be a reasonable way to finance the operation.

I would also like to see arbitration/mediation expenses split 75/25 percent recognizing the disparate power and economic balance between association and homeowner.

The City of Longmont, Colorado offers residents a Mediation/Conflict resolution program at no charge.

I would also like to see arbitration be binding on the association, but not binding on the homeowner.(This is not unusual in the business world. AT&T has a arbitration provision in which they pay 100 percent of the cost, and the decision is binding on the corporation, but not binding on the customer.)

As time goes on we are going to see more and more legislation tightening the ropes on homeowners associations and assorted rules and regulations. You are probably aware of HR6932 in Congress that overturns homeowners and condo restrictions on the display of religious symbols on exterior doors.

John and Susan,

I'd venture to say that THERE ARE 2 SIDES TO THIS STORY. What precipidated all of the denials and having lawyers and fines and denials? We will never know. I sat in on a mediation down in Florida once. The case between our HOA and 2 owners with the trucks/SUVs. Being on the Boards side of the issue, I was in total dismay at the lack of the 2 owners not having a clue what the docs really read and how they each interpreted them differently from what the Board did.

This is how the human mind functions. Read only or understand only the parts that you want to. My husband and I can see the exact same things and both see it differently. Repeat what someone told you and it comes out differently too. We all know this stuff. Such is how people use their Docs and that is to their best advantage.

What is even better, Darlene from Florida is NOT a Board or committee member and we have followed the rants against HOAs from her. I guess that it is stimulating to try and sort that out for us but we really should follow our HOATALK posting rules and that is to not encourage that type of posting. Nuff said!

Darlene,

"I thought this site was for assisting homeowners and HOA BOD's alike"

Exactly, how can we assist you?

You say how can you help, I wrote many many times to ask how to deal with a BOD that is running amuck.

Who should I contact for help? You know how you all answered me, get a lawyer involved. We did!! No one won, but everyone lost, money that is. The situation still exists after more than 3 years.

Tell me who is there to ensure the HOA's are run according to the Laws? Who can you go to without legal recourse to ensure the Statutes are followed? We've contacted the Senators and Community Affairs Department and are told that there is nothing that can be done because they simply don't have the time to dedicate to all of the problems in HOA's. Why develop laws if only the homeowners must follow them without getting a lawyer involved?

How can you help, stop telling people that HOA's operate wonderfully. They don't in all cases, tell someone the truth when they ask should a HOA exist. Look again at your own website and you'll see the problems. Are you solving them? Even helping them if the BOD doesn't want to listen? You tell the BOD's how to get what they want done, but rarely a homeowner; other than telling them to get legal representation. Many people answer the homeowners with problems that their only recourse is get a lawyer involved. I would almost believe that this is a legal marketing tool.

I'm not being negative, read my answers, I have advocated HOA's if they are run properly. You're trying to paint a pretty picture of all HOA's and that's not truthful or realistic.

Darlene, I think you may be being treated unfairly here. I would hope people would look beyond the tenor of the language to the issues being addressed. Clearly, you have passion in your posts, but passion is not altogether bad. It serves as a driving force for change. I do understand where you are coming from. There is certainly no obligation for people who do not share your passion or point of view to follow the thread. (I bypass threads in which I have nothing meaningful to contribute.)

Sometimes the best and only advice one can give is to capitulate to a rogue association board. Sometimes there are no options.