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RobertB20 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
I need a copy of my communities most recent PLAT. We have been told our community roads and culverts are now the responsibility of the West Palm County. However after calling the West Palm Beach County they stated NEVER and if we dedicated the Roads back to the County we would no longer be an HOA but an Open community to all, take down the gated guard house and all could enter. I was told i could get a current copy of the Plat on line but i am having no luck - help
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robert,
How old is your community? After a few years, all of these records go into archives and you have to go down and look for them yourself. Plats are very difficult to view on line because they are normally quite large and you will need help from someone in that office to understand some of it.

The developement next to mine did just what you stated. They worked it out that the County would take over the roadways within. Gates had to come down, police then enforced speed limits which had to be raised to legal limits (25 mph in this case) and the public came and went as they pleased.

Who told you that the roads and culverts are now the Countys responsibility? Do not take just anyones word on this. Your association would have recieved some official notices prior and the association would have to comply with the requirements (expenses to prepair)
RobertB20 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
My community is 12 years old, the letter was sent out by our Board to our community stating the roads would now be repaired by the county and the culverts as well. The Board is having an emergency meeting to take money from the Road reserve and elimanating the reserve after a vote of the majority of the home owner's so they can now repair the roof on our clubhouse. The letter is misleading and home owner's now believe the roads will never have to be repaired by our assocciation so we can use the money for the roof. I called the county as I have stated and they state it is untrue period we own the roads and must repair them unless we dedicated the roads to them and then we will become an open community to all, I was informed I need a copy of the current PLAT which will show the roads are owned by my community not the county.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

Instead of trying to obtain a copy of the Plat, why not just ask the board to show proof that the roads are no longer owned by the assn?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Good point, Mary.

In our area, we can go to the township to get plat maps.

Call any company that does surveys and they will tell you where to get a layout for your neighborhood.
RobertB20 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Mary the reason I asked, was because they refuse to give a copy of the Plat to me, if our community was tunred over to them it will show on the doc itself.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robert,
By "THEY", do you mean your Board? Or P.B. County? In Martin County, a copy of a plat costs 10 bucks. I still am not sure what you are looking for. If the community has been gated since the turnover, then the roads are the communities responsibility and that is what the plat will show.

Also, under common elements and or association responsibility, you will find wording that has maintenance and replacements of the roads. I am assuming that because of the letter from the Board on the Association now being relieved of it's road responsibility, the plat will not show that. P.B. County is very slow on changing it's archive files.
RobertB20 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
thank you Donna,

I was informed by Palm County the roads have not be dedicated to the county by our community and the County has not taken over the roads so we remain a private and not open community, however It was suggested to me to get a copy of the Plat to show this, but was not sure where to locate it, I will go to Delray Beach and see where I can purchase a copy of it.The Board is mis-leading the community or they themselves are confused. They want to dissolve the road reserve thinking the county now must maintain them and they need the money for a roof repair on our clubhouse and need the vote of the community.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Reserve Fund Plans are not written in concrete. Things change; they need updating every 3 - 5 years.

We are going thru the same thing. We can either do the roads by ajusting the Reserve Fund OR have a special assessment.

What do you think the Members will want to do?
EdieL (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Original Plats would show private rds. with gated access. For this to change
there would have to be a meeting of the minds between local and state governments.
Your plat would not show this change. You need to contact your planning dept.
or local county supervisor/representative. Board of supervisors/representatives
would have to sign a county resolution to adopt a private rd into a state rd. system.
The state rd system then would have to agree to accept the rds. All of this is
paperwork, not plats.
Edie
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If your gates are dismantled and the gatehouse torn down, then your HOA MIGHT have changed its road dedication status.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
I would not bother with searching for a copy of the plat. The BOD will likely simply state that yours is out of date. (Because the only existing one is probably the original one.)

But for your roads to be accepted would require the vote of an elected body of government. This would mean that the City Council, or County Commissioners, or some such vote to accept the roads upon recommendation of the engineers. Go back to the office that you called earlier and ask them about the process. They can tell you who would have voted.

Then get the last year's worth of minutes. You will do this be submitting a "Freedom Of Information Request." There will likely be a fee for the copies. In my town, the first ten pages are free then it is 10 cents a page there after. You may be able to download a copy for free then the cost of printing is what you pay for supplies.

Then at the meeting hold up the minutes and challenge them. State what you were told. Then state that it is backed up by a lack of any action to accept the roads. Understand the BOD is not likely to back down from their story. You will have to convince your fellow owners that you are correct.

Then you need to consider what are the consequences of spending money as proposed.

It is highly likely that to give the roads to the government your gates would have to come down. The only exceptions I have heard of is that here in Texas a special district can be setup. But the upshot is a higher property tax and the possibility that if said tax doesn't cover road expenses they can hit you with a special assessment. And since it is the city then making the assessment you actually have less ability to prevent it and they have an easier time foreclosing for lack of payment.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Kirk,

" It is highly likely that to give the roads to the government your gates would have to come down. The only exceptions I have heard of is that here in Texas a special district can be setup."

Actually, having our next door developement gone thru this very scenerio, the County does indeed require that the community NOT be gated. It is then considered County roads which they will maintain. The speed limit must be the County requirement of a minimum of 25 mph and it must be open access to the public.

But the original issue here is that someone on the Board states that the County took it over. By request from the HOA or otherwise? The County, especially Palm Beach County, is in no financial hurry to adopt another road to care for. They have thousands of roads that they have to care for that are new because of the extreme developement in that County.

I would definitely get something in writting from whatever department supposidly did this. The Association will have documentation from the County. The membership would have been informed and they would have had to vote to offer it to the County. LOOKING AT THE PLAT WILL NOT SHOW ANY NEW CHANGES.

The only scenerio which the County would have wanted to voluntarily take the roads would be if the County needed the roads for access to another situation like another road. I think that there is an error coming from the Board.

To vote to use the Road Reserves for another fund IS LEGAL, if the membership approves it. I guess that I am skeptical about what the real story is coming from the Board.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertB20 on 10/13/2008 3:25 PM
Mary the reason I asked, was because they refuse to give a copy of the Plat to me, if our community was tunred over to them it will show on the doc itself.

Robert,

Instead of trying to get a copy of the plat, or the new updated plat, I would think a letter from the Co. stating the roads have not been dedicated to them would be much better. Or, better yet, demand the board show proof that the roads have been dedicated to the Co. Has the board mentioned closing down the guard house? If not, then, IMO, there has been no change. Donna is correct in saying that if the Co. takes back the roads the guardhouse cannot be used. I'm wondering if the board is making a false statement to support their plan to use the road reserve funds for something else.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mary,
That's what I feel--that the Board is trying to justify or lie about the reason to move Reserve funds. The membership voted to allow the transfer by word of the Board. Humph, I'd ask to see the County documentation first.

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