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GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
This is stupid, folks, just plain stupid!

    Scott Zuniga put a Mexican flag outside his condo for Hispanic Heritage month. Three days later, he had to remove it, or face a $250 fine for displaying it.

    Zuniga put the flag on a pole in a bracket attached to the front of the condo he shares with his

    fiancée on Sept. 16. On Sept. 19, he received a letter from the Green Ridge Condominiums’ property management company saying he was in violation of the condo association’s rules, and that he must remove the flag or face the fine.

    Zuniga said he spoke to the property management company and came away with the impression that the problem wasn’t that he had a flag, but that it was a Mexican flag.

    “There’s never been an issue with any other flags,” Zuniga said.

    He doesn’t display the flag all the time, just on special occasions, like Cinco de Mayo.

    “I just put it out there on holidays,” Zuniga said. “It’s important for people to recognize we have holidays, we are part of America. This was once our land, too.”
JohnB7 (South Carolina)
Posts: 176
Posted:
E PLURIBUS UNUM

If one does not like this concept, one is free to leave.

A foreign flag should be flown only subserviant to the national (american) flag.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Well, what are the condo regulations?

Anything other than the US flag is decorative - so what do the rules say about decorative flags and banners?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


The American Flag is the only flag protected by the U.S. government, not any other. Unless his documents allow decorative flags on brackets, it has to come down. I did have a little trouble with the last part of his sentence---
"This was once our land, too.” Yeah, and Mexico once belonged to the Aztec Indians so he better cease and desist with that mentality.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB7 on 09/27/2008 6:13 AM
E PLURIBUS UNUM

If one does not like this concept, one is free to leave.

A foreign flag should be flown only subserviant to the national (american) flag.

That only applies if they are flown together. I can fly any country's flag I want to on my flag pole without having to hoist the Stars and Stripes, too, if I don't want to. But if I do, I must fly the American flag on top.

I'm pretty stunned at some of these responses.

We have a family in our neighborhood that flies the Israeli flag every day (or did until their flag pole was flattened by the remnants of Ike when it passed through).

We actually had someone complain about it because it was confused with a religious flag and he went off on a rant about separation of church and state.

We also have a large family from India who flies THEIR country's flag from time to time.

If we had Mexicans living here and they wanted to fly their country's flag on special days, I fail to see how that is a problem.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Michelle,

I think that the arguement here is whether he has the right to fly any flag at his condo. Many documents do not allow for the flying of flags EXCEPT now many States have laws and Statutes which prohibit the HOAs from banning flying of the AMERICAN flag, not any others. Therefore if his HOA says no flags, that to me means, no Mexican, Israeli or other kinds.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
I am still trying to figger out if Zuniga is the stupid one for flying a Mexican flag, clearly against the rules, or if the management company (and/or others)is stupid for making such a big deal about it that it got into the media.

Maybe it is a wash: both sides are equally stupid here.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
I just don't know how to respond to the whole thing. Obviously I wish more people understood the role and symbolism of a flag.

So in my mind, this person is swearing allegiance to another nation. And I think, then why don't you just go back? (Of course this is fallacious since said person didn't actually come from their sworn country to begin with.)

So I sit here and think that there is no reason why rules and laws allowing for the US flag should be extended to the permanent display of another nation's flag.

As for the stupidity measure George, perhaps we should look to the media for covering this. This is an area where I wouldn't mind the attention. The display of the US flag is about patriotism. The showing of another country's flag...
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KirkW1 on 09/27/2008 6:36 PM
I just don't know how to respond to the whole thing. Obviously I wish more people understood the role and symbolism of a flag.

So in my mind, this person is swearing allegiance to another nation. And I think, then why don't you just go back? (Of course this is fallacious since said person didn't actually come from their sworn country to begin with.)

So I sit here and think that there is no reason why rules and laws allowing for the US flag should be extended to the permanent display of another nation's flag.

As for the stupidity measure George, perhaps we should look to the media for covering this. This is an area where I wouldn't mind the attention. The display of the US flag is about patriotism. The showing of another country's flag...

Kirk, you sure do think like me! As for the media, what do you expect from that liberal entity???

AZ state law protects flying the US flag, the POW/MIA flag, the AZ state flag and an AZ Indian nations flag -- PERIOD!!! The Fed law only applies to the US flag. I see no reason to allow flags from any other country in the world to be protected by our FED or State laws! Does anyone think any foreign country has laws giving their citizens the right to fly the US flag? Anyone who thinks the answer to that question is "yes", please give me a yell -- I've got some beautiful oceanfront property right here in AZ with your name on it!!!
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Just a reminder on flag code, US law, and International Law:

You NEVER fly one nation's flag on top of, or higher than, any other nation. You don't fly them from the same halyard, ever. THey must be on separate staffs, of equal height. The US flag is raised first, and retired last, in the US.

US flag code protects the US Flag only (and other national flags, like the POW/MIA flag). State flag codes protect state flags, and those subservient (cities, counties, etc). Lastly, business codes protect company flags. Oddly enough, there aren't really any international protections for other country's flags... You can deface a Dutch flag, for example, all over the US, and there's no law against it, even international law (fyi, the Dutch flag is COMMONLY defaced all over the US). You can't deface it in the Netherlands, cause they have Flag laws that cover their own flag.

Only the President can order the lowering to half mast the US flag: Governor's can't, your boss can't, the Senate can't, just the President. Only a governor can order the State flag be lowered to half staff, not the chancellor, president of the college, CEO of the corporation, etc.. This is a frequently violated law (i saw a government office with a half staff flag six weeks ago, illegally flying).

And, a trivia question: You have one flag pole, and three flags: the US flag, the State flag, and the POW/MIA flag. How do you fly all three properly?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I don't think there was EVER a mention that anyone is flying the US flag AND another flag, and flying them inappropriately. I could be wrong, but I don't think that was the issue.

I think this is just about one flying the flag of another country.

In fact, we don't even know what the exact language in the rules that he allegedly violated.

From what he says: "'There’s never been an issue with any other flags,' Zuniga said."

So for all we know the restriction may just simply say "flags are allowed," ASSUMING that people would only fly the American flag. . . but, we just really don't know.

I still am disappointed at the tolerance level and lack of respect for other countries or people who have affiliations with other countries.

Speaking as a vet.

And a vet living in a diverse country; we have all sorts of immigrants and foreign nationals living on our soil. Not everyone living here is an American Citizen. And I'm not talking about undocumented individuals, either. My best intern was on a visa from England. He worked for me for three years. He's not allowed to show his respect for his country while he lives here? He needs to go back HOME to do so? And I'm not talking about if he lives in a "covenant community." I mean, at all.

:/

Fortunately for my sensitivities, OUR documents allow for "flags." That's it, just "flags."

No adjectives. No "U.S." or "decorative" or "official" or what-have-you. Just "flags."

Thank goodness I don't have to deal with such . . . interesting. . . parsing.

:/

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 09/27/2008 3:13 PM
Posted By JohnB7 on 09/27/2008 6:13 AM
E PLURIBUS UNUM

If one does not like this concept, one is free to leave.

A foreign flag should be flown only subserviant to the national (american) flag.


That only applies if they are flown together. I can fly any country's flag I want to on my flag pole without having to hoist the Stars and Stripes, too, if I don't want to. But if I do, I must fly the American flag on top.


Actually, two people spoke of flying two countries flags from a single pole: JohnB7 and Michele. It was to them that i intended the reminder that you never fly one country's flag superior/higher than another.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Michele, you have made the most sensible, thoughtful post in this entire thread. Thank you.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Let's raise the standards here, folks, particularly when it comes to statements of purported of fact. I am astounded by the amount of inaccurate, simply wrong information posted here masquerading as fact.

    Only the President can order the lowering to half mast the US flag: Governor's can't, your boss can't, the Senate can't, just the President.
This is simply false. U.S. Code Title 4,Ch 1, Sec 7 states the following:
    In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff...

And from my own state statutes:
    IC 10-18-9-8
    Gubernatorial proclamation ordering United States flag flown at half-staff
    "...the governor shall issue a proclamation ordering the United States flag to be flown at half-staff on the day of the member's funeral or memorial service."


Check your facts, cite your sources, and don't make overly broad statements.

Maybe, just maybe, this is why homeowners associations have so many problems.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
oops, my fault.. George is right, governors can order the national flag at half mast too.. I misread the first part of the statute, and another portion speaking to others in government not being able to order it be done, and missed the governor is allowed portion.

Good catch George! thanks for pointing that out!

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