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JeffT (Maryland)
Posts: 83
Posted:
How do you handle a homeowner who continually violates a rule and then the problem is taken care of in the alloted period before a fine can be issued. IE: allow 10 days for the remediation period then a sanction. Every week a person puts his trash out on Monday and trash day is Friday. He is only allowed to put it out the night before trash day. The trashmen pick it up Friday and issue no longer exist.

Our by-laws:
"Demand. Written demand to cease and desist from an alleged violation shall be served
upon the alleged violator specifying: (I) the alleged violation; (2) the action required to abate the violation; and (3) a time period, not less than ten (10) days, during which the violation may be abated without further sanction if the violation is a continuing one, or a statement that any further violation of the same rule may result in the imposition of sanction after notice and hearing if the violation is not a continuing one."
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT on 09/22/2008 10:10 AM
How do you handle a homeowner who continually violates a rule and then the problem is taken care of in the alloted period before a fine can be issued. IE: allow 10 days for the remediation period then a sanction. Every week a person puts his trash out on Monday and trash day is Friday. He is only allowed to put it out the night before trash day. The trashmen pick it up Friday and issue no longer exist.

Our by-laws:
"Demand. Written demand to cease and desist from an alleged violation shall be served
upon the alleged violator specifying: (I) the alleged violation; (2) the action required to abate the violation; and (3) a time period, not less than ten (10) days, during which the violation may be abated without further sanction if the violation is a continuing one, or a statement that any further violation of the same rule may result in the imposition of sanction after notice and hearing if the violation is not a continuing one."

Jeff,

Not stupid at all. In fact, pretty interesting.

I think understand what the drafter of this language was trying to get at. However, as written, I'd say there's a loophole not contemplated as evidenced by this precise situation. However,

"...not less than ten (10) days, during which the violation may be abated without further sanction if the violation is a continuing one" could be read that, in this case, the violation is NOT CONTINUING, but rather being abated, then repeated, hence,

"...or a statement that any further violation of the same rule may result in the imposition of sanction after notice and hearing if the violation is not a continuing one."

Good luck.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Jeff,

It appears John noticed the same thing I did, which I think was an error which wasn't caught!

". . .the violation is NOT continuing, but rather being abated, then repeated," and "...after notice and hearing if the violation is NOT a continuing one."

I don't believe the word "NOT" should be in there! I would suggest amending the bylaws to change this and also change the requirement to allow 10 days to cure for any and all violations. Some violations, such as the trash can rule, don't need a specified number of days to cure. Giving the prop. owner a specified number of days to cure is a courtesy extended when the violation requires some work on the part of the prop. owner, i.e., repaint the gate; cut the grass and trim the bushes, etc. Removing the trash can to its proper place only takes a minute!
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Mary,

I don't know the language needs to be amended (which can be a hassle, as we know).

Rather, the BOD could interpret it as suggested, then leave it to the HO to challenge the interpretation.

Also, as you noted, pushing the garbage can back onto the HO's property, assuming the HOA can enter property to correct a vio, might give the HO a clue. Hiring someone to do so then charging the HO for the service might also get his attention!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

If he's putting his trash can on the sidewalk he may be inviolation of city code. He would be if he lived in Glendale, AZ. It's always good if you can get the city code compliance dept. involved.
JeffT (Maryland)
Posts: 83
Posted:
What I am asking is suggestions on how to stop someone from the repeat offense. They do it every week and it gets corrected every week with in a time period. Can such a time period for compliance become null and void after a second or third violation? Can it be done without modifications to the By-Laws?

The trash gets put out onto common property
Rule: Must be put out no earlier than the night before trash day. Each week they put it out 4 days before trash day. It is taken away with in the 10 days.

Every 2 weeks the grass grows higher than 6" and they won't cut it until they get a notice. They cut it in the alloted time period.
Rule: the grass must be no higher than 6"

Homeowner leave kids toys all over the yard for days and will not put them away until receive a letter. 2 days after complying they fill the yard with junk until they get another letter.
Rule: All toys, play thing, and tools must be stowed each night before dark.

As far as I can see it is just a lazy homeowner or tenants who is ignorant and inconsiderate.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
simply expand the violation time frame....

the violation of the rules ISN'T that he put his trashcan out of Monday, Sept 2, and then again on Monday, Sept 9th...

the violation is that the owner repeatedly puts his trashcan out in violation of the rules. Make it a generic time frame (you have repeatedly violated the covenant, an example being this date and this date and this date). Order him to cease the action within ten days, and let him know that any further violations will be cause for immediate fining... the process doesn't start over again the second his trash can gets off the curb, it starts over again when the owner has demonstrated a willingness to abide by the rules.

Imagine this, in your current scenario: he puts his can out on Monday, and on Friday, the trash is picked up. He takes his can, rolls it onto his property for 0.01 nanoseconds, then puts it right back on the curb... does that short length of time "reset" his violation period? I don't think so, and thus, i don't think that simply doing it for 0.03 nanoseconds, or even 10 minutes does either. the trash can needs to come up, off the curb, and be placed out on the curb the night before.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Your board needs to pass a rule about REPEATED instances for the SAME violation. That 10 day "fix it" period does not cover BEHAVIOR violations.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT on 09/22/2008 12:07 PM
What I am asking is suggestions on how to stop someone from the repeat offense. They do it every week and it gets corrected every week with in a time period. Can such a time period for compliance become null and void after a second or third violation? Can it be done without modifications to the By-Laws?

The trash gets put out onto common property
Rule: Must be put out no earlier than the night before trash day. Each week they put it out 4 days before trash day. It is taken away with in the 10 days.

Every 2 weeks the grass grows higher than 6" and they won't cut it until they get a notice. They cut it in the alloted time period.
Rule: the grass must be no higher than 6"

Homeowner leave kids toys all over the yard for days and will not put them away until receive a letter. 2 days after complying they fill the yard with junk until they get another letter.
Rule: All toys, play thing, and tools must be stowed each night before dark.

As far as I can see it is just a lazy homeowner or tenants who is ignorant and inconsiderate.

Jeff,

OK, here's my suggestion. The board has the authority to adopt rules regarding CCR violations. They need to adopt a rule regarding repeat violations, regardless of whether the violation was cured w/i the stated period or not. I would suggest levying a flat fine -- $100, $200, whatever. This will allow them to fine this h/o and any other h/o who repeatedly violates the same restriction. My assn passed a rule that if the h/o does not get prior approval for a CCR modification they will be subject to a fine of $1,500, even if the modification was done IAW the architectural guidelines. Sometimes the only way to get people to abide by the rules is to hit them in the pocketbook!
SteveN (South Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I think that your by-laws are self-explaintory in that a repeated yet not continuous violation is subject to sanction after the h/o has been properly notified the first time.

I have sent out fines to H/O's who attempted to play the same game

As an example;

"It has come to The Boards attention that a boat trailer has been parked partially on Association property and in full view of surrounding properties since December 30th 2003. This is in violation of paragraphs 13 and 16 of the Covenants and Restrictions for Princeton Place. As this is a recurrent violation (refer certified letters dated May 26, 2003 and March 30th, 2003) a fine of $100.00 is now due.

If it becomes necessary, The Board will pursue injunctive relief through legal action to prevent future violations. In accordance with Paragraphs 19 and 26 of the Covenants and Restrictions for (association name) the offending Homeowner will be responsible for all costs incurred.

Please arrange for storage of the boat and trailer to a facility outside of (insert association name), and refrain from future violations."

Now, if the H/O violates the restriction every other year I would say that you remind them that they have been notified before about it, prior to fines.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Quote:
"Demand. Written demand to cease and desist from an alleged violation shall be served upon the alleged violator specifying: (1) the alleged violation; (2) the action required to abate the violation; and (3) a time period, not less than ten (10) days, during which the violation may be abated without further sanction if the violation is a continuing one, or a statement that any further violation of the same rule may result in the imposition of sanction after notice and hearing if the violation is not a continuing one."

The problem is right there in your bylaws. In your next statement notify the owner that if the rule is violated again he will receive a notice of a hearing for to determine a fine.

While the wording could be made more clear, you have to work with what you have.

As a note, I would create a Board policy that states what the time frame is between subsequent violations. (For instance, you may decide that if a person violates the trash rule, then further violations in a six month rolling period shall be treated as repeat violations. (You could go a year too.) The idea being to allow for a person goofing a couple times a year. (Or never allowing it and hitting them if they repeat threes from now as you see fit.)
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I agree with Kirk on this one, I would put them on notice and if it continues, start fining.

On a side note, it has been said that there are no stupid questions. If that is so, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JeffT (Maryland)
Posts: 83
Posted:
I have inserted a section in the rules and regs draft that I am creating that refers to a probationary period and any re-occurrence of the rule violation will result in hearing and possible fine.

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