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LuisT1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I am the new Treasure of a HOA in Connecticut. We have a new Vice President, which he also have a cleaning contract we the HOA. I will like to know if this will be a conflict of interest? He is also a signer on bank acct.
TonyM3 (Arizona)
Posts: 170
Posted:
If the work is being done at the agreed upon price where's the conflict?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


Luis,

Any time a renewal of the contract will need to be voted on, the V.P/ vendor will have to excuse himself from the vote, otherwise that is where the conflict of interest comes in. He will need to bid, just like other vendors do for the contract with the HOA.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
As a note, when it is time to renew, if you get new bids, then the Treasurer should not be privy to other bid amounts. But he/she should not participate in any discussion of whether to bid out the contract or not. (I would bid the contract out simply to avoid the appearance of impropriety. And the Treasurer can bid again at whatever rate he/she feels is appropriate.)

Also be sure the membership knows at all times that he has the contract. It is appropriate to let them know now if they don't realize. And if he continues the contract at the end of this contract you should remain open about this. Keeping things like this in the open is very important.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LuisT1 on 09/14/2008 8:55 PM
I am the new Treasure of a HOA in Connecticut. We have a new Vice President, which he also have a cleaning contract we the HOA. I will like to know if this will be a conflict of interest? He is also a signer on bank acct.

Luis,

Conflict of interest may not be addressed in your gov. docs, but there may be CT law -- perhaps in the nonprofit corp. laws. I would check this out. I know AZ does have nonprofit corp laws addressing conflict of interest. Normally there is a conflict if there is monetary gain involved. Also, in most instances the person with the conflict is required to state his conflict and perhaps refrain from voting on that issue. This will be spelled out in state law.
RobertoG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Yes, there is a conflict of interest, and all the membership shoul know about it.
Is there Ethic Code Rules for the Board Members at youHOA?

Robert
TonyM3 (Arizona)
Posts: 170
Posted:
In AZ the board member need only declare the conflict in an open meeting but he/she can still vote on the issue.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/33/01811.htm

I would much rather keep the money in the community.
LuisT1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2
Posted:
no, there is not ethic code rule.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
There is a conflice of interest ONLY if the treasurer makes decisions (votes) to make him benefit monetarily or to have an advantage over any other member.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Is a conbflict of interest when the appearance suggests there may be?
I am suggesting that the appearance of involovement counts for something. I would much rather (from my pint of view) not have a Board member involed in signing the checks, apparently he would sign his own check, and formulating policies that could effect him personally. To me, it is just a bad idea and if it happened in my condo I would want the Board to assure the members there is no other person capable of handling the job. It is certainly not unuisual for non-profits to not allow Board members to have business contracts with the company. Another question is: where do you draw the line, ar you going to select a Board member and deny an owner not on the Board. If it is legal then, all Board members could have contracts of somekind with themselves. Don't like it. IMHO. Let him volunteer, the rest of the Board does.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/15/2008 3:47 PM
Is a conbflict of interest when the appearance suggests there may be?
I am suggesting that the appearance of involovement counts for something. I would much rather (from my pint of view) not have a Board member involed in signing the checks, apparently he would sign his own check, and formulating policies that could effect him personally. To me, it is just a bad idea and if it happened in my condo I would want the Board to assure the members there is no other person capable of handling the job. It is certainly not unuisual for non-profits to not allow Board members to have business contracts with the company. Another question is: where do you draw the line, ar you going to select a Board member and deny an owner not on the Board. If it is legal then, all Board members could have contracts of somekind with themselves. Don't like it. IMHO. Let him volunteer, the rest of the Board does.

Robert,

I don't believe there is any such thing as the "appearance of a conflict of interest, legally speaking. With this type of a situation everything must be kept above board -- in the open. If, by state law, there is a conflict of interest it should be handled as outlined by law. Sometimes there isn't a legal conflict of interest but the action may appear to be morally or ethically wrong. That's why everything should be kept in the open.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Quote:
I am the new Treasure of a HOA in Connecticut. We have a new Vice President, which he also have a cleaning contract we the HOA. I will like to know if this will be a conflict of interest? He is also a signer on bank acct.

The person having the contract would appear to have been a contractor before being elected. In my view, this makes a huge difference. I see no reason why the existing contract is invalidated by the election to office short of a prior rule being in place. From a legal and business perspective you simply can't do anything about it.

As to the appearance, versus actual conflict it can happen depending on how a conflict is defined. For instance, in a zoning request recently, one member of the Zoning Board stepped aside for an issue because he had been close friends with the son of the applicant. While he did not have a direct conflict, he did right be eliminating a chance that someone could say it only went through because of the friendship.

To this end, the Vice President should not be privy to any bids if/when the contract ends. And further, should actually step out of the room when the contract is under consideration. This action should be noted in the minutes so that all the owners can know that this man isn't using his position to improperly direct money his way.

It really isn't that tough. Think about how you would feel. Or even go so far as to ask some members about their feelings. Remember folks that we are talking about people here.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:


Robert,

I don't believe there is any such thing as the "appearance of a conflict of interest, legally speaking. With this type of a situation everything must be kept above board -- in the open. If, by state law, there is a conflict of interest it should be handled as outlined by law. Sometimes there isn't a legal conflict of interest but the action may appear to be morally or ethically wrong. That's why everything should be kept in the open.

MaryA,
I think you are right and there is no such legal term as "Appearing to be conflect of interest." I also agree there may be nothing to this particular problem, we just don't know enough, so, as advice in general, I would elect the more cautious route and advice to stay away from it. (Appearance of conflict) Either way, the association involved has to make the decision, not us. To assume everything is kept in the open is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, think there may be more to the story than we are privy to. Sure would be the exception if we were getting all the story.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

I certainly agree that more often than not we don't get the whole story. But, isn't it human nature to only tell your side of the issue, especially when asking for advice, comments, opinions, etc.? Some people really don't want advice or opinions, they really want justification for their actions. A friend of mine always said: "There are 3 sides to every story; mine, yours and the truth." At the time, I didn't realize how prophetic her words were!
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
MaryA,
Right on all counts and we that give advice are victims of the same maladly. Best we can do is be aware of it, and your friend was right also.

I enjoy the grasp you and several other ladies have on this HOA business. I will name, Donna, Susan, Michele as a few without excluding any I forgot to mention. The document knowledge you all have has come from hours in front of a computer and hours under the gun. Not blowing smoke, just stating a fact and I'm glad you all stick around. And yes, this is a little sexist in nature, but it also demonstrates our changing times.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mr. Robert,

I am sure that all of us ladies appreciate your approach to the situations with your very wisdom and sense of humor. We thank you.
PaysonC (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
It is a conflict, you just haven't come to it yet.

For example, I'm the president of a 75 home community. The builder said there would be a park in the community area. They didn't tell us we'd be responsible for it. MUD has offered to buy the land and develope it into a park.

The community property is being maintained by a board member's husband who has a great landscaping co. I actually voted to let him maintain.

Fast forward to now. We had to vote on conveying the land to MUD. Here's where the conflict is. The approval of the MUD developed park takes away $5000 from her husband's co. She came on board but she was the last to vote.

I advise against it unless he's really low ballin'.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Kirk was right - he DID have the contract before being elected by the residents.

But I wonder, too, about the future. Complaints about his company's work COULD be a conflict for the Board. On the other hand, if the company does good work, what better situation could you ask for?

This will test the strength of the president (when leading the discussion about contracts and work performance.)

JeannieraeO (California)
Posts: 27
Posted:
In California this would not be legal. You really should check Conneticut law. A Board Member is the fiduciary guardian of the HOA's funds. If he is also a vendor with the HOA, there is a conflict of interest, whether it's legal or not. This means at the least that he should have no vote regarding maintenance contracts or any issue having to do with maintenance. He should, however, have the right to advise the board on these issues. He probably does have good insight if he is good at what he does. He just shouldn't get a vote.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Quote:
... there is a conflict of interest, whether it's legal or not. This means at the least that he should have no vote regarding maintenance contracts or any issue having to do with maintenance. ...

I totally disagree on this. He need only to not participate in discussion concerning his own contract. (He can answer questions, but should otherwise sit out.) He should also not vote on any action regarding his contract.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Kirk,
Reading Jeaneria response, I think she is saying the same thing you are suggesting. She wrote: "This means at least that he should, etc." I am not sure where she draws the constraints at the open end of this phrase. I feel it is improper and brews trouble down the line. If we assume all this stuff is legit and it isn't, the board looks foolish, if we say, "looks bad", lets not do it, do you lose a good board member? On site decision is the only way to go.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Quote:
...Fast forward to now. We had to vote on conveying the land to MUD. Here's where the conflict is. The approval of the MUD developed park takes away $5000 from her husband's co. She came on board but she was the last to vote...

Actually, this is where she should have abstained because of a conflict of interest in this particular issue. Hopefully she could see that while it wasn't the best thing for her husband's business it was the best for the neighborhood. All the same, because this does have a financial impact on her, she should have recused herself from the vote.

The existence of such a situation is not a conflict of interest. The voting on an issue in which you have financial gain is. And this should have been pointed out ahead of time away from the meeting. In my opinion, the president should have called her up ahead of time and discussed that if she votes on the issue, then it is a conflict of interest. He should further point out that because of this she should recuse herself. If her vote affected the direction then she might be sued. And even if insurance covered her legal fees, that is a huge headache for the amount of money involved.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Payson,

I strongly suggest you research TX HOA law. AZ nonprofit corp statutes regarding conflict of interest states:

1) A vote on the issue is effective if it received the affirmative vote of a majority, or at least two, of those QUALIFIED directors on the BOD. Qualified means a ". . .director who does not have a conflict of interest respecting the transaction or does not have a familial, financial, professional or employment relationship with a second director who does have a conflicting interest respecting the transaction."

2) The person with the conflicting interest in the transaction must disclose the conflict to the BOD and ". . .plays no part, directly or indirectly, in their deliberations or vote."

This means the director with the conflicting interest cannot give any adive or opinions regarding the transaction being voted on. They must disclose their conflict and then either leave the room (preferable) or just sit quietly while the remaining board members deliberate and vote on the issue.

If TX law reads the same as AZ law then the action taken by the board is invalid and should be voted on again w/o the input or vote of the member with the conflict.
TonyM3 (Arizona)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TonyM3 on 09/15/2008 12:03 PM
In AZ the board member need only declare the conflict in an open meeting but he/she can still vote on the issue.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/33/01811.htm

I would much rather keep the money in the community.

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