Community members starting websites for the community

Started by TamaraW • 29 replies • 1346 views

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TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

We have had community websites in the past that have been started by homeowners. They have not been moderated/endorsed by the BOD or PM because they always tend to end up being a bitch fest for a select few neighbors in the community.

We recently had one advertised by our park and on the back of stop signs. After review of the website, I found it too be quite racist and inappropriate for our community. More Board bashing by possibly the rival of the other website master in our community.

MASTER! lol...........that makes me laugh.

Anyway, I contacted out attorney's on this issue and because it is a website with our community name and advertised around the park they advised me to leave a disclaimer on there stating the website was not endorsed or encouraged by the BOD and any information posted did not come from the BOD.

I keep my eye on it and as of todays date it has turned into a porn haven. Keeping in mind this was advertised where our children play should I still push our Attorney's to find the homeowner who is doing this and bring them to justice and make them take our community name off their site.

I am not too computer swavy or a legal buff. Are there questions anyone can send me that I can shoot to the lawyer to get a fire under her arse?

GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975

Posted:

The first question I would ask of you is, "What law is being broken here?" Just because a website is disgusting, immoral, obscene, and so on, does not make it illegal.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

That is why I am asking. I do not know what law has been broken if any. I would imagine it would be illegal to advertise porn websites around a park for children, which is the case. I would imagine taking our community name as a base for their porn would be illegal.

Another concern is we have a registered sex offender living in our neighborhood. He assaulted two female students at a local school we have for the blind and the deaf.

If I knew, I would be taking more of an active stance on this, however I do not know............therefore looking for input.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

the first steps, it seems, would be to determine Ohio's definition of pornography, and determine that the site meets the definition.

concurrently, you need to research what Ohio statutes exist regarding advertising pornography.

Armed with those two facts, you can then determine if you have an issue to proceed with. Until then, as you have stated, you only have assumptions and beliefs, and you can't do much with them.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Couple of things here. First, do your CC&Rs have a No Signs clause? Usually no signs are allowed to be posted in common areas, so you could at least remove the signs under that clause.

As to the website itself, there may not be much that you can do about that. Often what will happen is somebody will register a domain name, then neglect to renew the registration. As soon as the old registration expires it gets snapped up by some overseas outfit that puts up a porn or gambling site under the old name to try to catch the traffic that was looking for the old site. Even if it was trademarked name, since it's based overseas there isn't much that you can do about it.

If you have a regular newsletter or some other means of communicating with your homeowners, you might want to put out a notice that the www.yourhoa.com website is not affiliated with your HOA and you have nothing to do with it's content. On the other hand, putting out that notice could actually drive more traffic to the site, which is what you are trying to avoid.

GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975

Posted:

Dwight has covered the bases.

Most likely you cannot prevent a website from using the name of your community, since it is in the public domain as a geographic locator.

However, you can prevent the use of the corporate name of the homeowners association.

But, as Dwight has said, the signs are another issue entirely, whether it be advertising for a website or for a plumber.

JeannieraeO (California)
Posts: 27

Posted:

Is your HOA name on the web site? Is it advertised as an official web site of the HOA? There are libel laws in place. Associating your complex with racist blather and porn can reduce the value of your property. Then there would be a case for libel.

I would definitely go after the posting signs angle. Find out who is posting them and take appropriate action. Also call the municipal authorities and protest the signs posted on the back of stop signs. It is illegal to post advertisements on municipal property without consent. If they don't take them off, form a neighborhood cleanup committee and you do it. If you catch the culprit posting more adverts, call the police. That's at least worth a fine to them. Good luck!

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

We do have a signs clause and those were/are removed immediately. I would really love to have our Attorney research the law, but it has been months since we have heard back from her, so if need be will do it myself.

You are right about NOT putting it in the newsletter. This would only advertise the site and possibly expose children to things we are trying as a community to not expose them too.

Maybe I need a face to face with our Attorney vs. going through the PM. I know child pornography is illegal everywhere, and yes there is some on this website, so maybe if I cannot get a hold of our Attorney I can call our local Police Department and see if they have a division that handles such issues.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JeannieraeO on 09/09/2008 8:34 AM
Is your HOA name on the web site? Is it advertised as an official web site of the HOA? There are libel laws in place. Associating your complex with racist blather and porn can reduce the value of your property. Then there would be a case for libel.

I would definitely go after the posting signs angle. Find out who is posting them and take appropriate action. Also call the municipal authorities and protest the signs posted on the back of stop signs. It is illegal to post advertisements on municipal property without consent. If they don't take them off, form a neighborhood cleanup committee and you do it. If you catch the culprit posting more adverts, call the police. That's at least worth a fine to them. Good luck!

Yes, our HOA is on the name of the website. My name was as well, through a link they provided to another website and I quickly had that taken down through the other website that this one linked too.

Good advice about the posting, however we are private property, we own the stop signs not the city and the city will not get involved as far as the posting on the stop signs.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Tamara - Do you know who is running the site? Like I said, it may have been picked up by an overseas outfit and is out of your reach. Go to domaintools.com and enter the domain name. That should give you an idea of who the current registrant is. If it somebody in Zimbabwe or something like that, then it will probably be out of your reach. About the only other thing you could do would be to keep an eye on the current registration expiration date and try to register it yourself if it becomes available again.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DwightT on 09/09/2008 8:49 AM
Tamara - Do you know who is running the site? Like I said, it may have been picked up by an overseas outfit and is out of your reach. Go to domaintools.com and enter the domain name. That should give you an idea of who the current registrant is. If it somebody in Zimbabwe or something like that, then it will probably be out of your reach. About the only other thing you could do would be to keep an eye on the current registration expiration date and try to register it yourself if it becomes available again.

This is like Chinese to me: I see our city name all over this as well as our local cable/internet provider. I do not know how to read the rest of it to locate the person who is doing this.

BrentB2 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TamaraW on 09/09/2008 9:23 AM

This is like Chinese to me: I see our city name all over this as well as our local cable/internet provider. I do not know how to read the rest of it to locate the person who is doing this.

Once you've input the domain name of the website, go halfway down the page to a category named "Whois Record".

Then look for "Registrant Name", "Administrative Contact Name", "Billing Contact Name" or "Technical Contact Name". They all likely have the same name listed to the right of them - that is the name the site is registered to. Check to see if that person is someone in your Community. If the names are different for the above "Names", then cross-check all the names.

Hope this helps! ;)

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Oh, my gosh.....this is what I did. In the block listed server data, next to the IP address, I clicked on the R block for reverse IP. The results were: There are 2 domains hosted on this IP address. The website in question and another one. I clicked the other one and it listed the email address for the person who is hosting it. This person lives in our neighborhood and is the person I thought was doing this.

With both names listed as being hosted to that one IP address, does that mean both are from the same house and masters of both websites. The site in question lists a domainsbyproxy email address, the other one lists the homeowner.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Go back to where you clicked on the 'R' block, but don't click on that. Instead as Brent said scroll down the page. You should see a section with a header that says "Whois Record". In this section you will see info for Registrant (name, address, ...), Admin, etc. The Registrant is the person who is responsible for the site. If that is your homeowner, then you have something to work with.

If he has child pornography up there, then you might be able to get your local police dept. interested. If he is hosting the site on a system in his own house, they can shut him down. If it is hosted elsewhere (the Server Data section will have info on where the site is actually hosted), you might be able to contact the hosting provider and let them know about the porn. Most hosting providers have reasonable use provisions that will let them shut down a site with kiddie porn.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

All register information is listed as private. I do not want to put it here, but can I email the website to one of you guys so you can see what I am talking about, if you have time that is.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I would recommend contacting your State's attorney general's office as well.

They should have a division that deals with cyberporn or other issues similar to that.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Sure. You can send the info to me at a throw-away account that I use: [email protected]

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Ok, as you mentioned, the domain was registered through a proxy, so the personal info is hidden. Law enforcement can get that info though through a subpoena for a criminal investigation.

The fact that the other website on that server is owned by a homeowner in your neighborhood doesn't necessarily mean that the homeowner also owns the problem website. but law enforcement would likely want to have a chat with him if he owns the hosting server.

However, I also looked through the website itself. While it does have a lot of childish ranting about the HOA, I didn't see anything that would come close to any definition of porn, kiddie or otherwise. It also looks like the "discussion forum" had about 2 dozen posts over about a 1 week period back in May, and has been completely inactive ever since. Maybe you found something in an area that I didn't stumble across, but it looks to me like this is a personal rant site that has already died a lonely death. Frankly, I think you should just ignore the site. I doubt if anything else will happen with it, and it will probably just go away when the registration expires in April.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Dwight you rule! Everyone else thanks for the help and support on this annd you rule as well.

DWIGHT - just be careful what you click on at the website because I am turning it over to the City Prosecutor.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DwightT on 09/09/2008 12:49 PM
Ok, as you mentioned, the domain was registered through a proxy, so the personal info is hidden. Law enforcement can get that info though through a subpoena for a criminal investigation.

The fact that the other website on that server is owned by a homeowner in your neighborhood doesn't necessarily mean that the homeowner also owns the problem website. but law enforcement would likely want to have a chat with him if he owns the hosting server.

However, I also looked through the website itself. While it does have a lot of childish ranting about the HOA, I didn't see anything that would come close to any definition of porn, kiddie or otherwise. It also looks like the "discussion forum" had about 2 dozen posts over about a 1 week period back in May, and has been completely inactive ever since. Maybe you found something in an area that I didn't stumble across, but it looks to me like this is a personal rant site that has already died a lonely death. Frankly, I think you should just ignore the site. I doubt if anything else will happen with it, and it will probably just go away when the registration expires in April.

There has been activity on it as early as today. Click on Forum in the upper right side, then click on Board Member Bitching as well as the other forums on there and then you will see what I am talking about. IT is not on the main page.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Ah. Found it. Now I really wouldn't worry about it. The site is probably going to implode soon.

Basically the site owner has opened the site up so that anybody can post anything they want on the site, which means that now the spambots have discovered the site and are busily filling the forum with links to their own sites. There isn't any actual porn being posted, just links to porn sites. However, as more and more spambots start to hit the site, the server will slow to a crawl and make it completely unusable. If the owner is trying to use that system for anything else, he will probably take that domain down soon since it's just creating more headaches for him.

I would still suggest that you just ignore it. I think the owner has shot himself with this one.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Thanks again, and I will work on getting over the fact that this site is being advertised at our park area.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

I would still remove those signs. If your documents say no signs in the common areas, then as George mentioned that applies to all signs, whether for a plumber or a website.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

thanks for the research Dwight.. for those of us in the web page business, it's tough to keep spam posters from flooding an open site. you can fight, delete and ban addresses all you want, but they come back like a hydra.

Also interesting to note, that by the OP's definition, my hotmail account hosts child porn...

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665

Posted:

I would say that your best bet at actually doing something would involve contacting the city about going after a person for putting their ads on the back of the stop signs. This is considered litter by many cities. The problem is that depending on the law, it could be impossible to do anything without catching the person actually placing the ads. Some cities have written rules to allow them to go after the organization being advertised.

JeannieraeO (California)
Posts: 27

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TamaraW on 09/09/2008 8:41 AM

So you have taken the advertisements off the stop signs too? I see you now know who owns the site. Check your CC&R's. You may be able to send a warning letter to the person who owns the site for posting the advertisements. I used to have a job posting advertisements for theatre companies as a callow youth. We learned the hard way that in California if your name is on the poster and it was posted in the wrong place you are liable. It may be the same where you live. You may not be able to get him for the web site, but you do want to make it clear to everyone that posting advertisements on the property is not allowed.

JeannieraeO (California)
Posts: 27

Posted:

Sorry about the strange tag in my post. I tried to post a quote and messed it up.

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Thanks everyone for the great help! These people are "those" whom never come out of their house, never go to an annual meeting, rebel against every rule they can and do nothing but cause trouble through lies and whatever they can do behind their computers. I am sure 90% of us have "those" in their community. Since I have moved in I have really wondered why they bought into our "controlled" neighborhood.

I and the community continue to take down the signs. We have had our Lawyer on this since the beginning (and funny thing is I figured it out with your help, all I needed was some computer smart friends) because on their site they linked my house to Rotten Neighbor posting me as a corrupt board member, stating my name, my husbands and encouraging people to do harm to my house. Here - Board Members are covered under Association Attorney's when it comes to things that have to do with the community. After Attorney review I had Rotten Neighbor take that down as it is against their policy to post names when you mark a home.

I will forward this information over to the Attorney and our association will review the bylaws to see what we can violate them for in this matter....ie: littering the park/noxious behavior, being total douche bags!

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I know that our board has to periodically monitor the Rotten Neighbor site as well.

I am stunned they actually posted your name!

Good thing the attorney was right on it!

We found, though, that the Rotten Neighbor site will remove similar posts without attorney contact, though, which is a good thing!

TamaraW (Ohio)
Posts: 193

Posted:

Rotten Neighbor was really helpful and quick. I was surprised it even made it on there to begin with, but it is gone now and the threat is removed.

I sometimes wonder the motivation behind such people that do these things. We are set out to help our community thrive and become one, yet they want to drag the value/volunteers down and separate.

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