installing a vent in a townhouse...

Yes, it is a shame. Most HOAs are not at all environmentally friendly. We can start with prohibiting the use of a clothesline and keeping a lawn green in a severe draught.

Read what Beth Grimm has to say about solar systems in HOAs.
http://www.communityassociations.net/cacondoguru/archives/2007/07/solar_energy_wh.html

The vent is an architectural issue, but hopefully with CA CC 714, the board and architectural committee may see the error of their ways. Getting the neighbors involved is a good idea.

Contact the local office of your state legislator(s,) they are usually willing to help with these sorts of problems. Also the media might be interested in a case such as this and most libraries have a “lawyers in the library” program, a free half hour with a lawyer. They usually are not HOA experts, but this seems to be a clear case of the HOA not obeying the law.

Refer to the ‘Making the Davis Stirling Act Work’ thread to see the problem.

Jane

We have approved venting units on our garages for different purposes, but have to say they are not an eyesore.

In your venture, I would also request a meeting with your HOA. We call those "hearings" in our guidelines.

It may be your current HOA is not familiar with your vent. Send them pictures. BOD's can act on ignorance and not education.

Example - the tomatoes in my garden were originally denied, because kids throw tomatoes. It eventually got approved after some stink from me. This also led me to join my Board.

An arborvitae (nice tall green bush) was denied because the BOD thought it was an arbor and would be an eyesore. When approached by the neighbor who was seeking approval and informed it was a bush, it was approved.

Are you responsible for the cost involved in maintaining your roof? Is this a common or limited common area?

Sorry you have to jump through hoops. I would check your decs. and bylaws if you have those. In our community, 75% favor of an issue (such as exterior approval/denial) rule over Board.

Good Luck and go get 'em, you will have to let us know how this turns out for you.

Tamara

As a BOD member, I will tell you that my attention was drawn more to the fueling station then the hole in the common wall. But that is just me. I would not assume that the BOD saw the same thing.

For that matter, I think you should meet with the BOD before you go to all the neighbors. The BOD was elected by your neighbors. They are the ones who have fiduciary responsibility.

I would recommend you request to meet with them to discuss the issue and find out why they denied your request. You should be prepared with information such as your contractor's license and insurance. While you say you understand that you are responsible for the hole, you should show that you are responsible for the hole. (If you want to do it yourself I would just say no. Sorry, just the breaks of living with shared walls.)

But the whole idea of needing a vent because of the fueling station makes me want to know more about safety. And to this end I would be looking for specific information from the manufacturer, city codes, etc. If the fueling station has been UL approved inside a garage that would work wonders. But the worst fear is that this would be another chance to have a nice big explosion. I am sure this sounds petty, but it is what I would be focused on.

I think you have a good handle on what the BOD can and can't do. But to think that they will divorce one from the other, is just not realistic. If you wanted to do that, then you should have asked to put in the vent and not mentioned why. If asked, you should have told them another reason.

I hope you can understand why someone might hesitate to approve a vent given what you stated is the reason for wanting the vent. And while I can understand that the vent is an added layer of safety and should not need to be operated regularly, it does give one pause for thought.

I will tell you that if I were on the BOD of your association, a simple letter wouldn't be enough. I would want references to show that this is safe and all. It isn't to say you are wrong, but some people will stretch the truth and possibly outright lie about such things. (Then again some might put in the fueling station without the vent as well.)

By the way, is this a powered vent? If so, then I would hope that you are planing on having a qualified electrician to do that portion of the work. Understand that I would do it myself in my private detached home. But once you live with a shared wall the rules change.

Hi Dietmar,

First off, congratulations on being a trailblazer in your community. The problem with being the first person to want to do something new is that the Board is usually afraid to approve anything new and different that they may not fully understand.

My suggestion is to try to meet with Board in person to explain everything about the vent in detail. Point out that at 5 x 5 inches, the vent is about the same size as a clothes dryer vent, which are usually unnoticable. Have a vent with you so they can see what one looks like. Invite them to see your unit and the wall where the vent will come through. Take a piece of chalk and outline where the vent will be. If you can, pick a location for the vent that is behind some shrubbery. Tell them all the work will be done by a licencsed contractor, you won't be knocking holes through the exterior wall!

You will need to take them by the hand and educate and explain everything to them so that they can feel comfortable enough to approve it. It can be done and your reason is wonderful, so don't give up on it.

Dietmar,

Quite frankly, if I were on the board, your petition with neighbor's signatures would be of no meaning to me whatsoever. Your neighbors don't always know what's best for the assn! The board makes decisions, or they should, based on what's sound business practice and what's best for the community. IMO, you should ask for a hearing to explain your request and find out why the board has denied it.

Dietman,

Don't your docs give the member the right to a hearing if a request is denied? Mine do and I believe many assn docs do. Of course that hearing is with the BOD, the same people who've denied the request, but it is a right each member has. Have you researched the Davis-Stirling act to see if this is a requirement of state law?

Dietmar,

Yes, do show up with more documentation enforcing your position; but leave your neighbors at home. As you said, you want this to be a friendly meeting. IMO, coming in with other homeowners supporting your cause takes the "friendly" out of it. The fact that you have gone around to your neighbors gathering their support means you're stirring up trouble in the neighborhood -- at least in the eyes of the board members. Believe me, I know some people would look at it that way. IMO, it's best to just leave the neighbors out of it altogether. Just my opinion!

Hi Dietmar,

I may have missed it – would the vent be in the roof or the garage wall?

Two things stand out here which have not been discussed (referring to your 9/3 post):
1. Is your Board developer controlled – or has it been turned over to the homeowners?
2. What do your governing docs have to say with regard to alterations to or activities in the buildings?

If you are still developer controlled, it may be possible that they do not want to approve anything outside of what is clearly allowed by your governing docs as they may want to leave such approvals that fall with the “grey areas” up to the homeowner controlled Board. That happened with us. The developer controlled Board would not approve anything outside of the governing docs. Once we took over, we updated the Declaration & By-Laws and developed rules and guidelines, and have more flexibility.

Re governing docs -- our governing docs do not allow any activity, item, or alteration which may increase the cost of the Association’s insurance. The Board’s decision may have been related to this – the vent itself may not have been the issue. Regardless of whether you or any of us may argue that the fueling station meets code and is safer than a gas stove, the insurer may think otherwise, and the Board then may deny the request.

Regarding your statement that Board approval is not needed for the appliance - that may not be entirely accurate. Once again see your governing docs. Here is an example: our units have the standard gas hot water heaters. I was considering installing a tankless water heater several years ago. It would require a vent and an upgraded electrical outlet. I would have needed Board approval for it.

I agree with those who suggested asking why the Board denied your request; then provide the facts to support your request and which address their concerns. Request their reasons for the denial prior to the hearing.

Finally, it wasn’t clear to me that if the Board denies an alteration request, the homeowners are able to vote to give approval – could you clarify that? I couldn’t find anything like that in our docs (except for removal of a Board member or with regard to a couple of other things). Also, just curious, did you already purchase the car?

Good luck!
Bonnie

Dietmar,

First of all, I was not accusing you of stirring up trouble. I only meant the board might take it that way if you showed up at the meeting with a bunch of your neighbors. Knowing now that the "hearing" will take place at the annual meeting (which I find quite unusual!), my opinion has changed quite a bit. At the meeting your neighbors will be present and they can voice their opinions quite freely. Of course the board doesn't have to listen to them and can still rule against you; however, IMO, this might be a reason for a recall of them all! I see having this hearing at the annual meeting a big disadvantage for you. This may be the straw that breaks the camel's back -- in more ways than one! Have all your documentation ready. Hope all your neighbors are willing to voice their opinions. Since it's a member meeting the board cannot stifle them. Good luck!

Dietmar,

Oops, I meant to say "advantage" to you. With all the members present and hopefully willing to come to your defense if the board doesn't reverse their disapproval it may very well be their downfall. I'm thinking recall!

i just wanted to do a quick follow up...

i had an over an hours long (closed) meeting with the board, they were very open and interrested in the technology and all it's aspects. they had some legal concerns, but i had good information for all questions.

and best of all i got approved ! for both the solar and the ngv ! so a happy ending here.

thanks again for every ones input and help, it certainly did help me to get prepared for the meeting.

Glad things turned out well. Thank you for the update.