A little advice please on slander

Started by LisaS • 32 replies • 3435 views

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LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

Ok...I admit I am finally hitting the wall on this one. Help!

Any who has read my previous post "Irrational Board Member" knows the story.
Basically, we have one member on our 5 member Board who contributes nothing, stopped showing up at meetings, and has decided that I am the root cause of all evil in life. The remaining four of us on our Board are friendly, respectful, and diplomatic with each other.

Although I have taken 'the high road' and not participated in the personal attacks being visited on me by this one member (only addressed 'business', but did not ignore him) , I am starting to lose my patience. I have turned the other cheek a whole lot.

I have been accused of everything short of killing Kennedy- crime, power mongering, vendettas, favoritism, 'punishment' of neighbors, calling the building department to stop work on this members project, etc. All untrue. The accusations in the beginning included vague allusions to my having a 'questionable' friendship with another Board member. They have now turned into statements that I am having an affair with him. I am sure this rumor is being spread all over the neighborhood. I guess if you really want to get to a woman who seems too tough to crack, you call her a whore.

Has anyone been in this situation, and what did you do? I would like to believe that in the end the truth comes out, but I am not that naive. Our neighborhood is fairly new, so while I have a number of people who are familiar with me and would not believe it, there are those who don't. Event the most ridiculous lie seems to be believable when you hear it from a Board member who is also an attorney.

I suspect the goal of the taunting and harassment is to get me to quit the HOA Board. I will not. He has made threats that I will 'be going' at our annual election. He has told me to move away. I will not.

Suggestions?

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

If he is verbally telling other people that you are having an affair, and you have proof of that, and it is untrue, that is Slander, because it could damage your marriage. If he has written that on paper, and you have the paper, and he cannot prove that you are having an affair, then that is Libel.

I would write him a letter and mail two original copies. One via certified mail with return receipt so he has to sign for it. The other by regular mail, in case he does not sign for the certified.

Detail what he has said or written regarding the affair accusation, and that his accusations amount to slander (spoken word) or libel (written word, and demand that he cease and desist those accusations or you will take all necessaery legal action.

Just zero in on that one accusation because that is one that can be very damaging to you, your marriage, and to the other party, assuming both of you are married.

If he continues, then have an attorney write him a letter. Take proof of his accusations to the attorney. (Don't use an HOA attorney because they specialize in HOA stuff.) Find an attorney who does not have to charge you 8 hours to research the slander and libel laws. Possibly an attorney who specializes in business and contract law would do.

Good luck,

Bill

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

And he is a lawyer? You need to nip this immediately before it gets worse. A letter is not going to dissuade him. Gather your information together and sue his a@@ off. Too bad the U.S. is not one of the countries that requires the slander defendant to prove he has not done was is alleged. Good luck. What a price to pay for volunteering. Harold

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

Correct..at this point it is a big price for volunteering. I was tempted at one point to quit just because this foolishness takes up too much time. But I made a committment when I got elected, and I intend to keep it.

I am keeping every email, plan on taping every meeting that he actually shows up at and waiting. Our annual election meeting is later this year. He has stated emphatically that he will be 'exposing' me at the meeting and ensuring I will not be re-elected. Since all he has are lies, I will let him make his big speech and include them all.

I figure if I wait until that meeting, it should give me everything I need plus some. I am a Realtor, and since everyone in my community could be a potential client, it affects my business as well(once I leave the Board). He could potentially be paying for my kids college education....

Just curious how others have handled it...the being a 'target' day after day, suspicious neighbors who don't know you and wonder if some of it may be true, etc.? I am only human, and it's hard not to care what people think.

GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519

Posted:

LisaS,

I believe taping is only admissible as evidence if the other party knows they are being taped in advance. The sources of your information (that he has said untruths to) need to do more than tell you, they need to attest in writing to his statements, and they must understand your course of action is going to become legal. There are emotional damages that you have sufferred due to his statements and actions. This is perhaps the worst kind of pain a troubled individual can cause. I doubt you will ever sleep easy if you do not take action, it's hard knowing this guy will smuggly laugh if you step down on his account. He is an abuser and has perhaps admitted to being a womanizer. The best way to expose these kinds of individuals is to shine a spotlight on their statements with grace. You have power as a resident in your community, so use it. But be careful of your position as a Board member. So recuse yourself from being judge and jury in your Board role, try to remain objective, and definately abstain from any motions or votes that may occur on the Board regarding this matter.

In my HOA the are rumor mills as well, we've had several anonymous letters that have circulated, one was even mailed via U.S. post to each resident. In it were "almost libelous" if not libelous statements. It's amazing what people can do with words that allude to wrongdoing when there is none. Keep a stiff upper lip and gather your supporters.

Best of success!!
GeraldT1

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

This is when you find out who your friends really are. After our special meeting last spring, I always wanted to hide under the biggest rock I could find. Sad that you have to feel that when driving into your own neighborhood and driveway. I wondered what people thought of me after someone knocked on doors every day for weeks telling lies about me to get me removed.

The whole thing back fired on her and here we are, I am back on the board and they are all 'hiding', or moved. My advice is to hang in there, stay the high road and what comes around goes around. You could also have an attorney send this guy a letter but it may fuel his fire. Let his actions, or lack of, be his down fall.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Lisa:

I agree, find yourself a good lawyer, get their advice on gathering evidence and sue the pants off this idiot. As a protection I would excuse yourself from any decisions the HOA makes in relationship to this guy so he can't acuse you of bias.

Hang in there, I know it is tough, but speaking from experience (although not as bad) if people are going to believe the lies and rumors without talking to you then they are not worth your time. If you continue to be yourself and do what you do, people will begin to see he is a farce and a liar and you will come out ok. Probably the worst thing you can do is get into a war of words with him, it will just feed his ego and ruin your credibility.

SwanB (Washington)
Posts: 199

Posted:

Oh LisaS, this is too bad and something I hate hearing. I am not going to touch on the topic or issue of slander, etc. because enough people have given their thoughts on that.
I will give you some thoughts on how to face up to the rumor mill and keep on ticking. I realized trying to control the bad mouthing wasn't going to make it go away. The individuals were going to foster as many lies as they could come up with. However I kept my chin up and continued to work at making things fair and honest in all my actions as a Board member. I worked towards honest communications and am, normally, a friendly and well liked individual, and relied on those realities to shut the rumors down.
You aren't going to convince everyone but, remember, we aren't on the Board to make friends...not that you or I are trying to make friends, but you get my drift.

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

I just let him continue to rage on...and don't give him any response to his personal attacks. For once in my life I have been able to excercise great patience ;-)

Another Board member talked to our new attorney today. He reviewed the situation, and advised us to formally ask him to resign as a Board by vote and certified letter.

He also advised that we take his emails, and his ultimate refusal to resign (we've already asked informally twice..)to the disciplinary commission in our state for attorneys. Our attorney was appalled at the extent of his unethical and possibly criminal conduct. Perhaps what goes around really will come back around ...

Thanks all for the support. It helps to know I am not alone in thinking this is crazy!

EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170

Posted:

Lisa:
You have my EMPATHY in this matter! The same (almost exact) thing happened to me. We had a nine-member board. I was halfway into my second term (3-year term) and I was being FAIR and honest to our members about the use of our facilities, i.e., we had 1/3 outsiders on our the community swim team and the swim team (ST) and the woman "who would become president" basically wanted (and did) take the assn. away from the members for the sake of the ST and outsiders; now the board is 7/9ths ST advocates who have spent $200K on dolling up the facilities as their own with everyone's monies and they restrict the use of the facilities to those of us who pay for them, i.e., swim meets, practices, etc. during times when residents should be able to use the pool. The problem--half of the neighborhood do not care nor realze what's happening with what they are paying and basically don't want to hear about it.

This is an intro to show you how outrageous and similar to your situation. The woman who would become president (pres.) was ring leader and started a movement against anyone that she felt was against the ST; frankly I wasn't against ST--I was against them and their outsiders taking over facilities they didn't member in and pay for.

With the pres. help, a man who had separated from his wife (who owned the house from a previous marriage) assaulted me when I was on the board and rode with the inspector (one time) on a monthly inspection. The pres. would have been the only one who knew I was going with her to and it was arranged by the pres. (unfortunately, after many depositions,etc., it looks like the management company was in on it also because they were in cahoots with the pres.; donating to ST and desperate to keep their job). After the assault an attorney wrote a letter to the guy telling him what he'd done was civilly and criminally actionable and to cease and desist such behavior. This made him so angry that:

HE STARTED A RUMOR THAT I WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE PATROLMAN WHO PATROLS OUR ASSN. He went into public places where other patrolmen were security guards and told them; his stepdaughter told all the kids on the school bus and our son was harassed and then stalked by this guy; after we tried to settle out of court (basically doing him a favor) he continued by telling the US mail carrier that I was stealing his mail, continued to call me ugly names, stalked our child. During all of this, he attended his first board meeting EVER, three weeks after the assault and wrote a letter to the board accusing me of misusing funds by talking to the patrolman (who was on duty about 30 minutes a day and anybody had the right to speak to him). Whenever we'd ask the board to intervene, the pres. kept them from it because of her involvement; whenever we'd deal with him with an attorney, he'd try to blame it all on the board and the fact that I was on the board. THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS FOR FILING A DEFAMATION SUIT IS ONE YEAR IN MOST STATES!!!!!

Bottom line, LISA, get all of the facts you can gather--get affidavits from people of what he has said to them. Get tape recordings and then transcribe them word for word. We found in depositions that a lot of people had amnesia, and those who were also involved didn't want anyone to know they were involved. Accusing a woman of being unchaste is slander and if in writing is libel. Both are defamation. This ruined my business because I had clients in the assn. It hurt my spouse and my child. Defamation lawsuits are very difficult to litigate because truth is the only defense and if this guy you are dealing with is an attorney, he'll certainly think he knows the angles to get by with this. Further, it got worse because it was REPUBLISHED. When defamation is republished it's as though there is nothing you can do about it being repeated. We are going to court this very month with a summary judgement after 2 and 1/2 years of putting up with this. The moral victory that we have had is that the man has moved from the neighborhood and whether he shows up for the hearing or not, we will probably win it. It has been very costly. The board DID NOTHING TO HELP with this and in fact, the pres. even told the insurance company not to handle a claim from me as I was on board business and I was asking for my legal fees to be covered.

You have to have proof that he is defaming. Get the proof and SUE him for slander. In my case, it wasn't about money although I've spent a lot now--it's the principle, and if this summary judgement doesn't go in my favor, I'll take it to trial. But you see, in the end, it's a way to get you off the board because you are probably a better director than he is. This guy that assaulted me was able to get ST advocates together and the pres. because they all had a mission and purpose. Now they all have amnesia, and of course they've carried on with their plan and are still spending homeowners' monies without their vote for such, and the pres. has moved to another assn. that has NO HOA but comes back here to have her child on the ST without paying! And so it goes! There are some real jerks out there. I would have moved from here except we're retiring in three more years and didn't want to move twice.

And the justice system is a whole other story!
EdR

EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170

Posted:

PS: I agree with Bill--don't get an HOA attorney--good defamation attorneys are hard to find. There is one in Atlanta that was in a high profile case. In what state are you? A good attorney that is not HOA can help you though. And unfortunately--since it is not a matter of someone suing you (for negligence, wrongdoing on the board, etc.), you can't fall back on board insurance. However, if he countersues you for something to do with the board, you can go to the board's insurance.
EdR

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

Ed, your story is horrifying. And familiar. The familar theme seems to be discrediting through rumor and innuendo regarding 'sexual ethics'. Because regardless of whether or not you or I actually did have some sordid affair...it really has nothing to do with our positions on the Board. It's only purpose is to make us cower away.

In my case I have one additional avenue because the 'offender' is an attorney. There's that whole 'character and fitness' requirement they have to live up to. So, if he gets censured or suspended for his actions, I have one more fact to cite when I finally sue him (I don't want to- but if I have to, I will)

The irony is that our Board has tried very hard to get this member to participate and to feel like part of the Board although he contributes nothing. When he 'disappeared'for a month we emailed, we called him, we went to his home to make sure he was OK. It would have been much easier to just ignore him and his tantrum. But we are fair and decent people.

I would think that your association would be have a big problem with the burden of 'fiduciary responsibility' because of their antics with the pool and funds to improve it. I can't believe that your association members just let this continue. But people don't like to rock the boat when they are in it...

Lisa

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

Posted By GeraldT1 on 06/30/2006 5:26 PM

LisaS,

I believe taping is only admissible as evidence if the other party knows they are being taped in advance. GeraldT1

The laws vary from state to state. California has a 2 party law where the person being taped must be informed and give permission.

Arizona has a one party law where the othe party to the conversation does not have to give consent. The person taping has to be a party to the conversation. At a board meeeting you would be a party to the conversation.

However, the board controls the meeting, and the board can deny anyone permission to record. So you do need to know if the board has not objection to the recording.

Check the audio recording statutes in your state to see if it is a one party or two party consent.

Bill

EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170

Posted:

Bill/Lisa:
This is why I recommended taping and then transcribing. Get rid of the tape after you transcribe verbatim. Then if you are ever in court about it, just say you took shorthand and transcribed it. I retired from a law firm (in Texas)and the law in TX is the person taping is part of the conversation. I have transcribed many conversations verbatim and used for affidavits. I think the bottom line here is that this guy (the attorney) who is slandering Lisa is aware of how hard defamation cases are to prove--he should be--he's an attorney. You will need to be careful, but it also sounds like he's got a loose screw--could make it worse. In my case, and yours, Lisa, the accuser had to come up with something ridiculous. There are still a lot of people out there who live in glass houses and still throw bricks. A lot of people are so concerned about the rumor of an affair. The people in my assn. believed it because it gave them a REASON to overthrow a fair board. These days you never know what will be considered fair and reasonable. A lot of people have never learned what that means, so they don't practice it. I wish you luck with this and hope you find a really good attorney. There are a few in TX. Mine has done a terrific job with my defamation suit even though that is not his specialty.
EdR

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

The not for profit act in Illinois covers the taping of Board meetings pretty clearly. As well, I have a number of friends and family in law enforcement, so I am clear on who can tape what, and when.

So long as I am a party to the a conversation (outside a Board meeting) and the other person does not have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy'it's OK. Since I would never be alone with this man in a place that was not public, I don't anitcipate a problem.

The more I ignore this man's attacks, the more specific they get. And...all in writing so far. Which just goes to further show he either does have a screw loose or is not a great attorney.

Ed: Just curious...I understand that tapes are not submissible as a record of a meeting and that written minutes must be taken. But why destroy the tapes after transcribing (assuming you took notes as required during the meeting)? Isn't it a good back up or am I missing something?

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Lisa:

If you were the vindictive type you could start a rumor that the reason he is launching these attacks against you is because he is mad that you turned down his advances!!!

In all seriousness it sounds like you are on the right track. He either has something wrong or isn't anticipating the storm on the horizon. I would get him disbarred if you can, he obviously has no ethical conscious. Like I said I firmly believe in what goes around comes around and if you continue to do the right thing you will come out ok and on top!

Good luck and keep us posted.

EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170

Posted:

Lisa:
I apologize, I didn't understand you were talking about taping in meetings. If you tape your meetings anyway, then you have what he's saying on tape and you have everyone listening to him as well, and proof of what he said. If a secretary never put anything in minutes (like slander) that anyone said, how would that be of much use to you? When I was secretary I kept the tapes for several years. There are some things that would be good to have on tape and others you wish you didn't have. I actually meant and thought you were trying to catch him saying things about you when you alone or someone else may be talking to him. In that case, you could record (with a hidden recorder--and YOU ARE PART OF THE CONVERSATION) his slander and transcribe it--what both of you said. Do not reveal to anyone that you have taped. If you end up with a good attorney, he will help keep you from any trouble with a tape. In my case, after so much slander flew around, the police officers actually taped a conversation of the deputy calling the slanderer and telling him he was sick of his telling people that he was involved in an affair and that it was destroying him as well as me and that he was liable for it. The guy asked, are you recording this?; and he said yes, but it was too late. In fact, the deputy was sitting in a room full of other deputies. The tape has mysteriously disappeared, but they had a secretary transcribe it and the transcription of the conversation is admissable--they told the judge that the secretary took it in shorthand while sitting in the room with conference phone on. The only problem with a transcription vs. a tape is that the defendant can (lie) dispute and say he never said it. But they rarely do that because if it's a verbatim then they know that somewhere a tape must exist. This may not seem fair, but hey, is what these people are doing fair?

Lisa, my advice to you, since this is just beginning is to keep records and tapes of everything; even pictures of events as long as you don't publish people or license plate numbers, etc.. For instance, when I would see the assailant talking to someone, I'd take a picture, because in one hearing he stated that he'd never spoken with that person--my attorney was able to show a picture of him talking to them with a date on the picture. All of this information caused him to back down. I kept a chronology of every day and what happened. I am so thankful that I did, because although you hope, like I did, that it will stop , it is difficult to remember what all took place, license plate numbers, when you saw someone talking to someone. I have read back over my notes and it's incredible how stress caused me to forget some of my own experiences. I call it a coping mechanism. Also, from experience, judges take people more seriously when they have kept copious notes because that makes a person more credible. For instance, they see that you've lived it, not a year later tried to put together a notebook/calendar chronology. The judge also sees that the fact that an abuser doesn't have notes is evidence that he didn't want a record of what HE was doing. Duh! I was able to tell my attorney exact dates that exact remarks were made and it blew the guy away. Plus, he proved himself to be abusive to the judge because he never paid his attorneys and is on his fourth one now. He has lied a lot, but he couldn't dispute my notes and exact times. He was dumbfounded. In all of this, though, please be careful--abusive people like your attorney, and the guy who assaulted and defamed me, apparently get angrier when they know they are losing and they kick their abuse up a notch! I'd suggest staying away from this guy and I hope you can get him to get off the board. I hope this can help you. I don't know what state you are in but with that info. I could access some laws for you.
EdR
EdR

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

Thanks Ed...you have gone above and beyond. I have been able to use my research skills to find lots of case law in my state (Illinois). You have to love the internet access databases!

I am also very glad for the support of the other Board members in my community. It is a Board problem, but the focus has been me. One of the other members and I hit a rough spot a while back...but this has definitely brought us all back together as a team.

I am lucky, because my 'attacker' has not had the guts to say anything to me in person. He did come to my home one creepy night, and I made sure I had a statement notarized shortly thereafter regarding what was said, what was done, etc. Everything else is in his own words via his emails.

By the way Brad...your are not far off with your joke I suspect. I got more than a few 'I like you' emails and lots of flattery before this started. I thought it was because he wanted something from me regarding the Board. But now that I am being accused of having an affair with another Board member...I wonder if there was more to it and he felt rebuffed because I never warmed up to him. Simply, I never liked this man. I was always polite, friendly, business oriented. But not a friend.

I'll let you all know what happens next...it's like a soap opera!

many thanks to all,
Lisa

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

after transcribing the tape to written form, you destroy the tape so that only one "version" of the events remain. If you compare a written transcription to a tape, and there is ANY error, you undermine the value of both as evidence. Any contradiction of the transcript, and it loses value.

without a tape, the written version stands strong as the only, true version, and it can't be contradicted.

GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519

Posted:

BrianB is absolutely correct. Destroy the tape, doing so is common practice. Keeping the tape is not good backup. Informing someone in advance that their conversation will be taped will immediately give that person pause, it should tone down any reasonable person........or the attorney. Isn't the purpose to put an end to his kind of behavior?

GeraldT1

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

I'm wondering, if you want to use the tape for legal action against this attorney, then what is the best way to go about it?

If the tape is used for the minutes, then consider that entire conversations are never transcribed; only the topic of a discussion, and all motions, and resolutions resulting from the motions.

If the entire converstion with that person were transcribed, then how could the board approve the minutes, because no one would remember the entire conversation verbatim. If the transcription of the person is not approved by a board, then the transcription is of no value for legal action.

If a separate tape recorder is used, and assuming your state has a one person law, and the board approves taping the meeting (for purposes other than the minutes), then I would think that tape should be preserved. If you transcribe that tape and destroy it, an opposing attorney would argue that there is no way of knowing if the tape was transcribed accurately. In that case if you wanted to destroy the tape, then perhaps the tape should be transcribed by a court recorder. They are available for hire.

Bill

EdR (Texas)
Posts: 170

Posted:

LisaS: I am intrigued by this subject since I'm living this, but want to caution you to find some information regarding slander and libel and read it--online even will be helpful. I had a book about litigating slander and libel lawsuits that I purchased and loaned to my attorney so don't have it handy, however, I believe that if a person says something in front of you, it is not considered slander. Slander comes in if they say things about you to others. The slanderous comments would be about theft, adultery, etc., and of course, if they are true they are not slander. In other words, if I had stolen or was having an affair, it would not be slander--I was accused of both. Would you believe that when I said the guy was a liar, he accused me of disparaging him by calling him a liar?!!!!! Outrageous.

Let's hope your board, since they sound reasonable, and do not sound like they are willing to tolerate this, will get the attorney off the board and you won't have to deal with a suit. After he is asked to resign and leaves, anything he says to someone else could get him sued if it is not true and if the person who hears it will write and sign an affidavit. In my case, this guy lied about everything--he made things up that I'd done in my position as architectural control committee chairperson and people were just livid and outraged at me, but they never checked to see if it was true and didn't care to find out that I'd had one one-minute conversation with the guy in my entire 8 years in the association and it had nothing to do with the assn. Some people are cruel, rude and vicious, and it looks like you and I have met two of them.
EdR

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

I wish you luck Ed...it is true that you never really get how petty and vindictive people can be, or how easily peolpe believe lies until you live it.

DavidH4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Have you own attorney come to the owners meeting and record what this fool says.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

David, what would you hope to achieve by paying your attorney to come to an HOA meeting and record what a fool says?

I realize the U.S. has become a very litigious society but don't see what you could achieve. Perhaps I have become too prejudiced (or blinded) through years of observing the results of attorneys activities

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

I have to agree with Roger.

If the point is to 'intimidate', the perpetrator of this mess IS an attorney. So, that wouldn't help. If the purpose is to record what is said, it isn't any more 'legal'just because an attorney comes to the meeting. It probably adds a whole other facet that simply adds complications.

Plus, the association would need to pay an attorney to show up, for a function that really is not neccesary for an ordinary meeting (although we may have one come to the annual meeting because I suspect it will be 'colorful' at best). I don't think I can justify paying the attorney at this point to do that.

But thanks for trying to help.

DeeR (North Carolina)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Could someone help me with a member of the board who has recently caused me a great deal of distress? In emails to all the board members he has labeled me as abusive, uncivil and un neighborly because I questioned workers as to what they were doing to my unit, and why were they using my electricity to perform work on another unit.

I have responded to his email and copied everyone, however, his statements are untrue and unfounded. I have also requested that he cease and desist from further inflammatory remarks, and to remove me from his email list.

If this happens in the future should I have a lawyer send him and the board a letter, or should I have a letter sent now. I have notified one of the board members that she is to retain all copies of the emails, on my behalf, should anything retaliatory happen to me.

What would you recommend I do?

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

LisaS: I am sorry for your situation with slander from another Board member who is also an attorney. Pitiful.

Now, I'm going to attack this from another angle which I sometimes do, just to throw some posters off...
Have the other Board members rallied to your defense? Has this person been elected to the Board? or is he the resident Board attorney, and does not hold an elected Board position?

Perhaps you could call a special meeting of the Board (without this member) to discuss the attacks and ask the Board to kindly write a letter to him. I am surprised that a professional would be reduced to these actions, but that the rest of the Board has not put him in his rightful place.

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

Dee...I certainly can understand where you are coming from. Being labeled a malcontent just for caring what happens in your association is never fun. You have every right to ask questions.

In your post I noted that you asked a Board member to keep all emails in the event that something retaliatory happens. Because the Board members job is to protect the association, don't count on that happening. The best advice I can give is to know your rights, and to not let it get to you. If the Board member is sedning emails only to other Board members expressing his/her opinion of you, then perhaps you should simply ask to speak with the Board and calmly explain your position that the behavior is unprofessional and inapproriate. Take the high ground....apparently it will directly contradict what is saying about you and you will be 'on record' regarding what has happened.

PaulM...it has been a while since my whole 'situation' happened. The attorney in question continued his behavior and much worse. But he is since off the Board and hopefully only speaking about me now in whispers to his neighbors. Sadly in our society most don't want to get involved unless something directly affects them- attacks on me didn't really affect anyone else on the Board, and I would suppose that they felt that if they spoke up they would be the next target. I learned a lot about the character of fellow Board members from this. However, I also met a number of people in our community who stood up for me that I never would have expected. It was quite a learning experience.

DeeR (North Carolina)
Posts: 2

Posted:

thank you lisa. i have sent emails to all board members, that my actions are not to be considered abusive or uncivil, and have stated his statements towards me were based on malicios gossip. i have further requested no future emails from the individual who was slandering my name. hopefully they are smart enough to realize that i have legal grounds. i am typing in lower case, because i am at the moment holding a phone to my ear.
should this ever occur again, i will have my attorney draft a letter. i don't understand where people get off being bullies, but i won't stand for it. i am so sorry to hear of your situation. i think the best tactic is to nip these things in the bud. good news, they are no longer using my utilities to do others repairs. guess they got message loud and clear, but what a stressful day it caused for me. i should bill them for time lost.
hope your situation improves.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Lisa:

This is nothing more than pure,unadulterated curiosity. In the drama above, you mentioned that he had *forewarned* about some sort of *exposing* of you at the all-member meeting. I know a lot of times, comments like that are all bark and no bite, but I'm dying to know: Did he actually try to stand up in public and dress you down in front of the membership?

I'm so proud that you were able to hold your ground on the board and not give in to his bullying behavior and quit.

I think there probably isn't a board member on this board who hasn't had a toxic board member encounter of some kind or another.

I know in my case, one former board member, who was also the head of the Architectural Committee, had serious issues with my leadership. Part of that stemmed from his cultural bias (he was an older gentleman in the construction industry in a Dixie state, and, let's face it, there aren't too many female leaders in that demographic. At least around here.

I was (and still am) a stickler for *It's All About The Documents* and he is more of the Good Ole Boy mentality where one hand washes the other, wink wink nudge nudge, friends get preferential treatment, people he doesn't like get no approvals, period.

During my tenure as president, I tried to formalize the Architectural Approval process and he wasn't having any of it. He did NOT want to keep records. He wanted to be able to verbally approve projects, yet disapprove in writing, especially if it were a homeowner he didn't like. He also did not want to close the loop and go back and inspect a project after the fact to ensure that it was built as laid out in the plans. He insisted it was a waste of time and that if the homeowner built it wrong or not according to speck, then too bad, unless someone else wanted to complain about it.

Needless to say, he tried to pull a power move and did a lot of rumor mill stuff throughout the neighborhood on me, as well. Since my name was on all the violation notices, as president, it was easy to get a rabble up in arms about my horrendous communist behavior (yes, they actually used that concept, and Hitler's name was thrown around as well).

But I was determined not to let his undermining behavior derail me. I am of the firm belief that one's reputation speaks for you. But, unfortunately, that's not an overnight solution. It takes time to build a consistent, fair, and ethical reputation (and yet, such a thing can be demolished overnight with one wrong move!).

As people in the neighborhood began to see my position was one of even-handedness, one of putting the HOA first, and one of patience in the face of adversity, my reputation in the rumor mill began to offset the one he was trying to ram through it.

Sounds like that is what eventually happened in your case as well!

But I'm still dying to know if he pulled a stunt at the meeting! LOL

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

Michelle...there was plenty of drama at the meeting, but because he is a coward he didn't say a word to me publicy- he didn't even show up!! Because many people wouldn't trust him in light of the situation-and I am sure he didn't want to have to answer questions about his behavior- , he got a few of the inviduals who were angry with me because my name was on the 'you are in violation letters' (it was my job to send them!) to show up and throw accusations and lies.

The most amusing part was that even after i had to answer all sorts of foolishness, I was the go-to person for 99% of the questions the audience in attendance had about a variety of subjects at the meetings end. It was gratifying.

However, we had an election that night and I ended up losing by one vote to a woman whom was a 'plant' via the attorney. Long story, but the election was flawed due to bad proxy votes and more than one non-homeowner who voted. I could have forced another election, but then it would look like sour grapes and cost our association money so I let it go. Looking back I wish I hadn;t. The attorney became an active member of the Board again(he had another year on his term), severe mismanagement and sweetheart contracts have commenced, and the current Board has spent silly money on silly things.

Because they also have no open meetings (contrary to the law)I decided to make sure our community knew exactly what was going on. So I created an informative website and sent a postcard with the web address to every member of our association. It caused quite a stir!

ShawnaF (Colorado)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Wow Lisa - what a fantastic way to still be a leader with your website and research and showing others the RIGHT way to do things. Thanks for sharing that (noting down your ideas!!!)

I'm really sorry for what's happened to you and for all the work you did. I know how disappointing it is and I certainly didn't do half the work you did in your community. But hey, there's a bigger and better plan for you elsewhere I'm sure!

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