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SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
I know what this is and I would think the MC would know what it is and would have filed....What I don't know is how very important this is and what's the likelyhood of the IRS catching this or doing anything about it?
I have been told to not worry about it, the IRS never checks HOA's...How true is this?...From what I understand, attorneys get one, lawn service, etc...Our lawn service crew make $1980. a month, thats a lot of money that could go unreported....Could the MC be held accountable if the IRS did raise a question?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Sidney ultimately IMO it is the HOA that would be responsible for following the MC's advice. For more info on 1099's go to:
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/forumid/1/postid/43885/Default.aspx

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Sidney,
I am not a financial person but I do not believe that the HOA is responsible for 1099s. You ire those mentioned by a contract and they are responsible for reporting their earnings. If I am wrong, that would be a good learning lesson for me but I don't think that you generate 1099s.
KathyT2 (Florida)
Posts: 22
Posted:
I think the rules are you don't have to give 1099's to companies only to individuals. If the check is made out to xyz landscaping it does not get a 1099 because its a company and the check cn only be deposited into the company account but if you're giving money to Joe for cleaning the walks every week, he gets a 1099.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Kathy, that is not entirely accurate.

Our former lawn care service was made out to a "company," however, the "company" was really an individual who was D/B/A (doing business as) a company. His Federal Tax ID number was his Social Security Number.

We were required to file 1099s on him.

You send the vendor a copy and file/send one to the IRS.

Anyone who told you that you didn't have to and that HOAs "never" get checked by the IRS is just passing along bad advice.

The MC doesn't necessarily HAVE to do it, ultimately it would be the responsibility of the treasurer.

Have the MC provide you the list of all your vendors and their Federal Tax ID numbers.

That list alone would be a good guess as to who you need to send 1099s to and for.

If the Federal Tax ID number is a social security number, then send the forms and make sure you close that loop.

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Donna...I do believe that HOA are to have independent contractors, anyone who is not an employee and receives a W-2....other wise HOA have them fill out a W-9, to anyone you pay over $600....even an attorney. It states in the instructions: Payment to Attorney- the term attorney includes a law firm or other provider of legal services. Attorney's fees of $600. or more paid in the course of your trade or business are reportable in box 7 of form 1099 misc. You must obtain the attorneys TIN number, you may use form W-9....

I did call the IRS and this is what I understood. Since these service workers are self employed we would not give them a W-2...so if we filed nothing then they also could file nothing and not pay any tax on the money we paid them....

I'd really like some of the smart guys/gals out there to check into it a little further for me...IMO, it's right but I have been known to be wrong.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Thanks, Michelle...I thought I was right...and the reason I was asking was because I ask the MC for a copy of these forms...she told me she had none...You are right, the MC doesn't file but she has the vendor fill out the W-9, one for the office file and one for the vendor....The MC then gives it to th CPA when having the taxes done. Our MC did not do this and we have many vendors last year....Thats why I was asking how much trouble we could be in if caught....The lady from the IRS told me a $100. pentaly for each form not filed.

But like I said, I was told not to worry about it, the IRS never checks HOA....How could that be? We are so small but on this forum most posters have very very large Associations and Budgets. Now that is talking money that could be made under the table if there was no account of the money paid out.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Sidney you already asked these questions and got some great answers, what more do you want? http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/forumid/1/postid/43885/Default.aspx
Statistically it might take a while for the IRS to catch up to you (the HOA) but why take the chance? It doesn't raise the HOA's tax liability to file them however failure to file could cause the IRS to deny them as true business expenses. This is the same as hiring someone and paying them off the books.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KathyT2 (Florida)
Posts: 22
Posted:
You could be right but thats not my understanding. We were told if the check is made out to John Smith he would get a 1099 but if we made the check out to John Smith Landscaping, the bank would not cash it for him nor would they let him put it into any account except the Landscape account and then he is responsible for taking care of the taxes.

Title Companys give real estate companies checks for thousands and thousands of dollars and never send a 1099 because the checks are made out to Re Max or Century 21.

I'll email and ask my tax accountant and see what he says, I'll post it as soon as I hear.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathyT2 on 06/01/2008 7:14 PM
You could be right but thats not my understanding. We were told if the check is made out to John Smith he would get a 1099 but if we made the check out to John Smith Landscaping, the bank would not cash it for him nor would they let him put it into any account except the Landscape account and then he is responsible for taking care of the taxes.

Title Companys give real estate companies checks for thousands and thousands of dollars and never send a 1099 because the checks are made out to Re Max or Century 21.

I'll email and ask my tax accountant and see what he says, I'll post it as soon as I hear.

Kathy from BruceF1 on the link I posted twice:
There are specific rules that spell out when a 1099 is required.

Having once owned a business, I've filed (given to others and reported to the IRS) 1099's before. There are a number of situations which require businesses (an HOA is a "business" under the tax code, read the attached) and, in some cases, even individuals, to report income paid to others on a 1099. A 1099 is NOT used to report the income (wages) of an EMPLOYEE. Another form is used for that purpose. A 1099 is required for anyone who is paid for a service and is required to file and pay his or her (or its) own income tax (such as a contractor, a subcontractor, a lawn maintenence contractor, snow removal contractor, etc.). This is true whether the "person" supplying the service is an individual or sometimes a corporation, and the amount paid during the taxable year exceeds $600. It's more than a CYA, it is a requirement. Failure to file a 1099 could result in a disallowance of the payment as a business expense if the return is audited by the IRS.

Yes, even payments in excess of $600 to physicians and physicians corporations are required to be reported to the IRS on a 1099, but not by INDIVIDUALS; only by businesses (such as insurance companies).

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
GlenL...I don't see one question mark in my last post...
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
The only way the IRS would know the HOA did not file 1099s would be through an audit. I don't know that the IRs would disallow the business expense for the company or individual the assn did not file a 1099 for, but I believe they may penalize the assn for having not filed them. Someone mentioned not having to file a 1099 for a company. That person may have been thinking of a corp.

Also mentioned was the fact that a 1099 need only be filed for payments in excess of $600. This is correct. As a point of reference only: even though you may not have been paid more than $600 and did not reveive a 1099, you are still liable for claiming all the monies paid to you. If you do not receive a 1099, you may want to call the person/company for whom work was performed to inquire as to whether or not the compensation paid you will be reported to the IRS. If it's not being reported then you most likely can get away with not claiming it.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Mary, that is not the only way the IRS would "catch" the non-filing.

There are any number of ways a flag could be set off. And frankly I wouldn't want to risk triggering any attention of the IRS for not doing something that is perfectly simple and easy to do. Why would we risk possible fines for not filing and then also triggering an audit JUST to make sure we didn't "forget" to file any OTHER required forms!

And Kathy, please be aware, there are a lot of people who use a "company" name who are not truly incorporated and exempt from the 1099s.

If there is any doubt, unless you know for sure, it costs relatively nothing to file the 1099, and covers your bases if you do.

There are many self-employed vendors who do work for HOAs who qualify for the 1099. Like I said, our former lawn care company did that. His name was John Doe (not his real name) and his "business" "company" name was "Doe Lawn Care."

However, his tax/federal ID number was his social security number. Guess what we found out after not filing 1099s for the 4 years we used him? We SHOULD have been! Even though we were paying by check, and he was depositing the check into his own bank account (NOT a Doe Lawn Care account as the check was made out to), he was not reporting the close to $18,000 a year we paid him.

That is until we started filing the 1099s.

Then he quit as our lawn care provider!

Go figure!

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