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AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
What are HOAs doing during these difficult financial times to economize? or are they? Some residents feel that all should go on as before but the thought of raising HOA dues would be considered unacceptable. Are any of the HOAs informing the residents that there must be belt tightening? and if so, how are they being notified or is this something that should not be considered at all?
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
AlexL...Our Board has never informed our HO's about anything in the three years we have had control. Last year we ran out of money because of misuse. The Board just took from the Reserves and stopped funding the Reserves. That was an extra $9000. from Reserve funding, that was spent for ??? In stead of tighten the belt, they hired a MC that charges us double what we were paying. How's that for looking out for the best interest of the HO's and the community. Now we are being told that there must be a increase, an increase HO's can't afford. Some of the HO's have said that if the dues goes up, then they will most likely follow on the foreclosure list that we already have.
IreneC (North Carolina)
Posts: 111
Posted:
Increasing HOA dues to the extent of making someone foreclose? How much are they looking at increasing. When I moved in my complex our monthly dues were 216.. here is is 6 years later and it's 260. It goes up every year or other year $1-=15 dollars. That isn't enough for foreclose anyone unless they are already in financial ruins.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Irene...these TH's are not high end properties. These are people who have a low Budget and everything has gone up. Gas back and forth to work is eating up an additional big chunk of their income...The dues are already $818. a year ($409. semi annual)...add 10%/15% on top of that, thats a lot of money for them.....Everyone doesn't live in expensive homes and can afford these increases....This is how it can cause someone into foreclosure. And we did raise the dues in 2007.

$260. a month, sounds like you live in a high end community w/amenities (which we have none of, except basics)...The very most any unit has sold for was $124,000. and that was during the inflated boom, now worth less than they paid. None are worth anywhere close to that now....we even have a few short sales (a couple more headed in the same direction), that are listed in the $80,000. range making them below builder cost before take over.

These are hard working people that don't earn a lot of money but worked hard to get into the first small place of their own...

"Increasing HOA dues to the extent of making someone foreclose?" I think the above answers that question for you.
IreneC (North Carolina)
Posts: 111
Posted:
Yes.. I guess it could make someone lose thier home
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
UGH! Sounds like you need a complete housecleaning of the board and to get out of that MC contract if you can. They are violating their fiduciary duty by taking from the reserves and stopping further funding. This will only come back to bite your members down the road with a special assessment(s) when those reserves will be needed. If they are concerned now about losing their home over a fee increase, what will they do with a special assessment?
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
You are so right Harold...this Board has never done what is in the best interest of the community..but they will continue to remain on the Board because no one will step up to the plate..And where did that $9000. that was budgeted for the Reserves go? When that "Special Assessment" hits them in the pocket book, maybe then the HO's will pull their head out of the sand...I did hear some good news today..one of the do nothing Board members sold his house(hear say-pray its true) and will be moving and our old treasurer (who just resigned to get me back on the Board) has already volunteered for the VP appointment...so their will be at least 2 against the other three. We keep hoping the President will resign...there are so many things I have wanted to do from the beginning...we need committees again, I want a welcoming committee, so we can keep tabs of who is moving in and out, I want a newsletter at least quarterly, to inform HO's about our financials and anything else of interest. Because of HO apathy, they don't ask for information but perhaps if we sent it they would take an interest. Anything is worth a try. The only recreational area we have is a very small park w/a pier leading to our small lake. I'd love to put in a horseshoe pit (I will even purchase the set and my husband will build the sand pits)and have cookout every now and then. It doesn't cost much for a few cases of pop or some bergers/hot dogs. This Board had one once, they ask every one to bring something to cook, a side dish to share, their own drink, their own chair. The Board would furnish the paper plates and plastic forks...Three people showed up plus the Board...It was easier to eat at home if you have to bring everything. Have a twice yearly yard sale. I want neighbor to meet neighbor. This Board had done none of this even thought I suggested these things from takeover. I believe that if we can pull HO's and renters together to meet and have fun, we may even get them together for a little beautification party.
AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
I read the comments but you have all missed the point of MY original question
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Alex, Sidney never misses an opportunity to lament her bad BOD/MC. However the fact that increasing the monthly dues from $68.17 ($818 divided by 12) would cause someone to go into foreclosure is IMO silly. If they can't afford a little more then they should get a second or third job.

To answer your question we really haven't had to scale back much (knock wood) but some basic maintenance has been stretched out and we use the newsletter and several open meetings to communicate with the homeowners'. In addition to the Annual Meeting which is required and the monthly BOD meetings which H/O's are welcome to ask questions; we hold three open meetings a year where no business is done.

At these meetings the H/O's are free to ask about anything on their mind, make suggestions, complain etc. Basically just clear the air, however a lot of good suggestions have come out in these sessions usually by people who generally don't open their mouths any other time. But the relaxed atmosphere of 35-50 people sitting around talking seems to draw them out. These sessions also serve to give the BOD an idea of what's really on the minds of the "silent majority" of the members; opposed to the one or two that show up at meetings purporting to speak for the others.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DonaldM3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 132
Posted:
Hey Alex! I don’t think you’ll find that HOA boards are doing a whole lot to economize. They may take a second look at a new expense that come up but if they’ve done their job right the periodic expenses are going to keep coming and payments for the expenses are going to continue.

The fiduciary actions of the board member must continue and the HOA must continue functioning. The grass still needs to be cut, the pool needs to be maintained and light bulbs need to be replaced. The BOD needs to keep meeting and they need to make sure that its members keep paying their monthly/quarterly/yearly (as is the case) fees. If a member stops paying their fees the board has a fiduciary responsibility to the membership take action(s) to cause the member to pay up even if it means eventually leaning the property!

It would be great if as a board member you could work with someone whose back is up against the wall but your fiduciary responsibility remains to the membership. If the board determines that dues ‘really’ need to go up, they will go up as bad as that will be seen by anyone who is already pushing their limits. It’s not necessarily pleasant but it’s reality.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Donald..."If the board determines that dues ‘really’ need to go up, they will go up as bad as that will be seen by anyone who is already pushing their limits. It’s not necessarily pleasant but it’s reality."

You're right, but when the well has dried up, it's dried up and the Association will only find itself receiving less dues and more delinquent accounts....I would think, theres always something that can go w/o for awhile. HO's know times are hard for all of us and if there is a strong Board that can relay to it's members what could possibly be elimated or dues would need to go up....We didn't do pressure washing on our TH's this year and guess what many HO's did it themselves.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
GlenL...."However the fact that increasing the monthly dues from $68.17 ($818 divided by 12) would cause someone to go into foreclosure is IMO silly.".....Glen, it sounds as if you never had hard times, to some people even an extra $1.00 can hurt. Sounds like you have read all my post (and everything I have said about my Board is fact)and if you have, you have read that my husband and I did just that, between the two of us, when we were young and had 6 babies to feed, we worked four jobs between us plus take care of household duties..but you know what sometimes we still had to look under the couch cushions hoping to fine some change....

Our dues are paid semi-annual $450. at one time is hard. Sometimes saving is not an option...In case you hadn't noticed everything has gone up.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SidneyP on 06/01/2008 7:45 PM
GlenL...."However the fact that increasing the monthly dues from $68.17 ($818 divided by 12) would cause someone to go into foreclosure is IMO silly.".....Glen, it sounds as if you never had hard times, to some people even an extra $1.00 can hurt. Sounds like you have read all my post (and everything I have said about my Board is fact)and if you have, you have read that my husband and I did just that, between the two of us, when we were young and had 6 babies to feed, we worked four jobs between us plus take care of household duties..but you know what sometimes we still had to look under the couch cushions hoping to fine some change....

Our dues are paid semi-annual $450. at one time is hard. Sometimes saving is not an option...In case you hadn't noticed everything has gone up.

Sidney I too have known hard times over the years, including but in no particular order, death of my 22 year-old wife in an accident when our son was four, bankruptcy (business & personal), a fire which destroyed everything I owned and no insurance. Now I'm on disability and limited to the amount I can earn to supplement my SS but more to the physical problems which preclude my ability to work. And yes I've noticed things have gone up but that's life and you just have to deal with it the best you can.

There have been tough times before and there will be again although I pray nothing like our parents and grandparents suffered in the 1930's. Do you remember the 1970's early 80's? Gas prices doubled, food costs skyrocketed along with the stories of elderly people eating pet food in order to afford their medicine. Wages which were stagnant if you were lucky to have a job; not to mention high taxes and interest rates that were in the double digits for a 30 year mortgage.

As much as we would sometimes like it to be, an HOA is not a charitable organization and the fees to operate it must be passed on to the homeowners. We all try to build a cushion in the assessments to allow for unexpected contingencies to keep from steadily increasing fees but eventually you have to raise them. Does this create a hardship for some? Absolutely, does it excuse the homeowner from their fiduciary duty to the Association IMO no.

And while the BOD has a fiduciary duty to keep the assessments as reasonable as possible they have the duty to care for and maintain the HOA as a whole. Sometimes that means doing two projects instead of three; sometimes it means forgoing maintenance to try to get an extra year or two out of something. But at some point the scale will tip and you'll end up paying two or three times to replace something than you would have paid to maintain it properly in the first place.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
SidneyP, I've been reading all these replies and posts. I think I understand where you're coming from. You were simply asking for suggestions for help. We, too, are a small 46-unit condo in Florida. Not all condo associations in Florida are high-rises on the beach, and it's all us middle-class, hard-working, and retired people who are suffering the most. We have people here in their 70's working part-time to make ends meet. We have middle-aged people working two or three jobs for the same goal.

Our association has always budgeted for yearly palm tree trimming. At our meeting tomorrow night we're going to discuss forgoing this service this year and instead having our part-time maintenance man remove as many of the dead fronds as possible and wait for Mother Nature to remove the rest. That's one way to use about $1600.00 this year to cover the rising costs of other services. But of course we expect to get blasted by that decision, if that is the way we vote. We can never win.

Has your association ever considered paying your maintenance fees on a monthly basis, rather than semi-annually? It's the same amount, but (for me anyway) paying in smaller amounts would sting a lot less than having to come up with a big chunk all at once.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This is a timely subject for me, because I just became treasurer and I'm thinking we're going to have to do some trimming in our budget for next year. The formal budget process begins in September and we announce the new one in December, but I don't think it's too early to start kicking around some ideas.

One area I really want to work on is the administrative category, which is about half our budget. We may need to take a look at some of the things our management company does and see where it can be done cheaper - for example, we send out coupon books for the maintenance fees (they're paid monthly), but I may suggest printing them on one or two sheets of paper, where people could cut out the appropriate month and mail it in (and lose the envelopes we usually send with them).

That's just one example and since I've just started this, I don't know where else we'll cut. I know we've cut back a bit on landscaping (the lawn still gets mowed, but fertilization is now done once a year, but now I think we're going to have to take a look at the swimming pool and community building housekeeping.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JoeK1 (Michigan)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Wow, that is a big question. Given that your association is a legal entity, it is like asking "How can our company save money?" There are numerous ways and lots of opinions on this one. Probably the best answer is that you have to have someone focus on every aspect of your spending and not just the obvious ones such as grass cutting. A tried and proven approach is to identify the top 5 budget spending categories and then devote resources to do what ever you can to bring the costs down.

As the current president of a small condo association, I will offer you the following suggestions on what we did.

1. One of the most important things that we initially did was to establish the management control infrastructure. This defined how the Board would make decisions, what core business process would be used, how member input would be gathered, and finally, how information would be processed. Besides your direct spending accounts this can be a huge financial and time drain if you have an ineffective or inefficient management. If you are interested in more detail on all the things we did during this inaugural year, it can be found at www.*******.com under the Contents section.

2. Your BoD should develop a written budget philosophy to help it decide what should be included in the budget and to also provide a stable and consistent approach for managing the association's funds. Once established, you can now test it against all of your budget items to determine if there are any opportunities for cost savings. Here is an excerpt from our Budget Philosophy that describes the policies we follow:
A)Manage the association’s money as if it were our own
B)Only budget for those items that meet the following criteria:
1) Is this a non-discretionary expense to the association that
a) Is an obligation spelled out in the bylaws
b) Is necessary for the association to function
2) Is this a discretionary expense to the association that:
a)Is needed for the safety and security of the association or its property
b)Increases the overall value of the association property
c)Prevents a larger future expense to the association
d)Provides a desirable benefit to the overwhelming majority of members
C) Target the reserve fund balance at a ___% fully-funded level for maintenance/replacement of long-term capital assets
D)Whenever possible, offer optional participation for expenses that are discretionary in nature
E)Obtain two to three competing bids whenever possible for contracted services
F)Maintain a small contingency fund to respond to unforeseen conditions/opportunities
G)Use Co-Owner expertise or volunteer labor to defray expenses whenever possible.
H)Strategically use special assessments to cover the cost of non-reoccurring expenses rather than increasing association monthly dues.

If you follow these steps, you should have a solid foundation for assuring that your hard earned association dues are getting the biggest bang for the buck.

Finally, here are a couple of "quick hitters" that we used
1. Increased the insurance deductable amount
2. Fully-utilized an association website and the use of emails for communication purposes
3. Shift repair/maintenance responsibilities to individual owners for items that that could be considered "personal" versus "common"
4. Funded our reserve plan at the 70% level versus the 100% level, which still keeps it in the "strong" position
5. Self manage our association saving a considerable MC cost
6. Established a preventative maintenance program to eliminate costly repairs
7. Utilized volunteers to do work formally done by contractors
8. Paid for professional tax preparation the first year and then had the association Treasure prepare it for subsequent years

Good Luck.

JoeK

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Anna..."Has your association ever considered paying your maintenance fees on a monthly basis"

Yes, it was put before the few members at out AM in March. It was voted down as well as quarterly. We are so much in the RED financially that w/all the delinquent accounts and even more units in pre-foreclosure that we wouldn't bring in enough monthly to meet our bills. Last assessment period we only had 63 out of 77 pay their dues and we expect that to rise. Out of the 63 that did pay, many were two three months late....I know Glen doesn't like me talking about our Board but they really hurt the Association when hiring a MC that charges double what we were paying when we were already in the RED. IMO, I just don't feel we can ever catch up unless we could get rid of this company (which the Board siged a three (3) year contract w a three (3 ) month cancelation fee....as I have said and offered my services, lets go self management just to get us back on our feet.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Don't worry about Glenn. Joe gave some GREAT advise above. If people in your community are not willing to attend a meeting to hear FIRST HAND exactly what the financial health of your association is, then someone needs to lay it all out in black and white for them and deliver a copy of it to each and every person. Show everyone how critical the situation is. At that time, ask them to get involved, and ask for suggestions.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Anna...I know you will think I am lying but I swear I am not...This company was hired in mid Oct. At the meeting (Board meeting) the few (very few-6 plus Board)were told how wonderful this company was. So FUNNY because this President told us the same thing when she hired the last MC, "I was so highly impressed", she had gone to another HOA's meeting...I was the one who ask what they charged, first I got a "higher", how much more I ask, "$300.". I still was the only one who spoke up saiding "we can't afford them"...but the kicker was, they charge us extra for everything. We had to get a POBox, we have to pay $20. a month for telephone (never before), we have to pay her mileage, (never did before), they charge extra for office expense??, extra for accounting???, extra for coping and reproduction???...This all adds up to about $250. on top of the $850....What I'd like to know is what does the $850. cover....Anyway, I did write every HO a letter in Nov. laying out everything, sending the latest finance sheet, the bank statements, the list of delinquents (of course some were on that list)everything being neglected, fountain broke for over a year, etc. The Reserve thing (which I have covered in many post)...77 letters out and 2 replys and one phone call in...that's how much HO's care....They will, when the HOA goes bankrupt or goes into receivership. I just can't imagine what the hect this President was thinking...We needed to cut not increase. It would be nice if she could be held accountible.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
JoeK,

Great post, not that the others didn't have value. I can cut and paste this to a file, and send a copy to who I think is the most likely to be serious about the subject. All of us have to adjust our life style and we move down or up life's road. As a family group we do this constantly. However when it comes to many many HOA's we really don't know enough about our income or our output. We have some figures but they have been tweaked over time or by those in control that actually tracking down a good or a bad deal in your Regime budget is impossible. So many of us allow the management to be held unaccountable and many Boards can not really pass close scrutiny. We really should all have an ad hoc committee that looks at nothing but ways to improve economic actions.
I would suggest that none of us that are governed by closed door politics is ever going to make a cchange. The change has to be made in bad management, then we can look at budget tightening. IMHP

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