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DavidP10 (Ohio)
Posts: 4
Posted:
What are the legal problems associated with creating a 55+ community? We currently have 16 out of 17 villas owned and occupied by 55+ people, and we would like to keep it that way. Is it considered "age discrimination" to amend our CCR's with this restriction?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Ownership over 55?

Owned AND occupied by over 55"

Occupied by over 55?

There are different options and different difficulties in enforcement and laws governing.

What exactly do you want to do - and why (in this economy?)
JimM7 (Florida)
Posts: 71
Posted:
David...maybe I can help.
HUD has established rules for communities to be designated
"A 55+ Community". If you go to the HUD web site you can navigate to the section with an explaination about those rules.
There are different federal laws that apply and the most prevelant one is the Fair Housing Act. The HUD rules have incorporated those laws.
Basically the requirements are:
Ownership of units,parcels,lots etc. is not the controlling factor.
OCCUPANCY is, and occording to HUD it must be a MINIMUM of 80% occupied by at least one person OVER 55.
You will have to have a membership vote. When you explain the benefits I don't think that will be a problem. HUD gives the community COMPLETE control (within their guidelines). They WILL NOT be the ENFORCER so be prepared to have good documentation.
In Florida the administravive agency for the HUD program is the Florida Commission on Human Relations. Their web site is http://fchr.state.fl.us.
Good luck....Jim
JimM7 (Florida)
Posts: 71
Posted:
David ...one more thing I forgot.
Don't be distracted by the "economy" issue. Remember it IS NOT ownership it is OCCUPANCY. And most importantly, it is a LIFE STYLE issue determined by the members of the community. Again ..good luck
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimM7 on 05/26/2008 6:24 AM
David...maybe I can help.
HUD has established rules for communities to be designated
"A 55+ Community". If you go to the HUD web site you can navigate to the section with an explaination about those rules.
There are different federal laws that apply and the most prevelant one is the Fair Housing Act. The HUD rules have incorporated those laws.
Basically the requirements are:
Ownership of units,parcels,lots etc. is not the controlling factor.
OCCUPANCY is, and occording to HUD it must be a MINIMUM of 80% occupied by at least one person OVER 55.
You will have to have a membership vote. When you explain the benefits I don't think that will be a problem. HUD gives the community COMPLETE control (within their guidelines). They WILL NOT be the ENFORCER so be prepared to have good documentation.
In Florida the administravive agency for the HUD program is the Florida Commission on Human Relations. Their web site is http://fchr.state.fl.us.
Good luck....Jim

The HUD rule is 80/20 occupancy; however the HOA rules can be more restrictive. I know of 55+ commuinities where at least one occupant of every unit must be 55+. HUD may not be the enforcer however the HOA must submit a report to HUD every 2-3 years showing they are in compliance with the HUD requirements.

To become a 55+ community will require an amendment to the CCRs. The procedure is no different than for any other amendment; however, as Jim has indicated, the HUD rules should be reviewed to ensure that the amendment is worded properly and all pertinent issues are covered.
DavidP10 (Ohio)
Posts: 4
Posted:
We wish to eliminate families with children--thereby reducing noise levels of screaming, stereos, loud cars, etc., and not have skateboarders and basketball players on our street which is a cul-de-sac.

We don't feel it restricts our market(in this economy); more importantly, it preserves the quiet style of living most older folks enjoy.

We are looking to restrict it to "owners and occupants 55+), since we are also revising the CCR's to prohibit owners from renting out their villas. Thus owners and occupants will be one in the same.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidP10 on 05/25/2008 9:29 PM
Is it considered "age discrimination" to amend our CCR's with this restriction?

I will let others answer the "how to do it" part, but to answer this question: Yes, it is age discrimination.

(and before everyone argues, it is. Look up the definition of discrimination. This is discrimination, it's just a legally allowable form of it.)

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidP10 on 05/26/2008 3:34 PM
We wish to eliminate families with children--thereby reducing noise levels of screaming, stereos, loud cars, etc., and not have skateboarders and basketball players on our street which is a cul-de-sac.

We don't feel it restricts our market(in this economy); more importantly, it preserves the quiet style of living most older folks enjoy.

We are looking to restrict it to "owners and occupants 55+), since we are also revising the CCR's to prohibit owners from renting out their villas. Thus owners and occupants will be one in the same.

Just checking, but as long as I am 55, then my skateboarding, '65 'cuda, and loud stereo is acceptable?
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
This is too funny. I worked for a law firm in Boca Raton, Florida on the intracoastal. They had owners who worked with teens in trouble and owned two motorcycles. The covenants said "No two wheeled vehicles allowed". So the owners had another wheel attached to their bikes and even though we represented the Association I just loved it. I could write a book....condos which did not allow fish or fish tanks over a certain size. These associations represented very expensive properties so had many retired execs who thought they called all the shots. Surprise. they are retired and they are only one vote.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
DavidP10,
I suggest that you may look into purchasing a stand alone property of about an acre or two so you will be assured of the peace and quiet you seek. Nobody should have the power to "eliminate" families with children. Weren't you a child once. Try to remember.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EllenS1 on 05/26/2008 7:55 PM
This is too funny. I worked for a law firm in Boca Raton, Florida on the intracoastal. They had owners who worked with teens in trouble and owned two motorcycles. The covenants said "No two wheeled vehicles allowed". So the owners had another wheel attached to their bikes and even though we represented the Association I just loved it. I could write a book....condos which did not allow fish or fish tanks over a certain size. These associations represented very expensive properties so had many retired execs who thought they called all the shots. Surprise. they are retired and they are only one vote.

No fish? Why? Does their barking keep people awake at night? LOL
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
if it's a barking problem, you should just talk to dogfish owners, not ban all fish owners.

and keep your catfish out of my flower beds!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Brian & Bruce,

Thx for the early morning laugh -- good way to start the day. Catfish; I know. Never heard of a dogfish; does it look like a dog or only bark like one?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidP10 on 05/26/2008 3:34 PM
We wish to eliminate families with children--thereby reducing noise levels of screaming, stereos, loud cars, etc., and not have skateboarders and basketball players on our street which is a cul-de-sac.

We don't feel it restricts our market(in this economy); more importantly, it preserves the quiet style of living most older folks enjoy.

We are looking to restrict it to "owners and occupants 55+), since we are also revising the CCR's to prohibit owners from renting out their villas. Thus owners and occupants will be one in the same.

David,

So you want a "sterile" looking neighborhood, right? Well, if everyone is agreeable, I say "go for it". BTW, I think you can buy those yellow and orange trousers with matching shirts at Wal-Mart.

I may be wrong, but even in a 55+ community, I don't think you can dictate who buys the property; just who lives in it -- regarding age that is.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
They could have fish but only of a certain size. Now I have no idea who measured these fish or the tanks. Maybe they had to obtain a search warrant Or maybe a visiting guest saw these monsterous fish and reported them.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
They probably used a fish scale.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Actually it may not be the barking that was their complaint. Now we all know how independent catfish can be..hard to control. It may be there was excessive splashing by the big fish. Then too perhaps the water dropping down on the lower owners ceiling might have upset them.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Brian and Bruce,

We'll have to stop this. I found out I was laughing loudly and may be reported for an old lady being too rowdy.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
David,

Have you thought this through? When you or the other owners meet their maker are you sure you want to ban your children and/or grandchildren from residing there?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Okay Everyone,

The Villa unit that I own and rent out is a 55+ community. I bought it when I was 54 so I was not in the "Senior " years of my life BUT I bought it because it is a peaceful, well run community that very rarely has any open or for sale units. There are rules, yes, but everyone who buys in there does so for the knowledge that there will be no hoops, no skateboards and screaming cars down the streets. So please, unless you have experienced this type of community, don't think that they are all pushing walkers and looking for their lost teeth someplace. They have a club for everything, trips to everywhere, golf leagues and God forbid, anyone misses bingo. It holds it's value even in this down market and everyone is involved so it is not the old peoples place to live. :0
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Donna,

I have a lot of respect for you from what I have read on this site but our hoa has no hoops, no skateboards and screaming cars down the streets (except for a neighboring community). My daughter lives here with her 11 and 14 year olds and they not only cause no problems but help with association events (setting up tables, etc, feeding pets while owners are away.) In fact, my 14 year old grandson empties the "doggy poop" garbage cans every week on pick up day. So it is not good to generalize as to age.

"They have a club for everything, trips to everywhere, golf leagues and God forbid anyone misses bingo" sounds more like assisted living to me. Tolerance of others is really needed. When I go to the supermarket and a slow, aged person is in front of me with their cart and takes forever to count out their change, etc. I don't expect that their shopping hours be cut so they cannot shop when people coming home from work are shopping. I just tell them to take their time. My mother died at the age of 86 and never tired of interacting with youngsters of any age..it's called life.

I lived for a couple of years in a beautiful intracoastal condo and at the pool I heard many complaints..."Oh, my grandchild is coming...moan, moan, moan." I never want to be that type of person.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Ellen,
I guess that there is a place for everyone and thank God that we are all different. But to give the 55+ style of living a bad rap is just some opinions. There are others who would not do it any other way.
P.S. I live in an all age community
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 05/27/2008 12:26 PM

Okay Everyone,

The Villa unit that I own and rent out is a 55+ community. I bought it when I was 54 so I was not in the "Senior " years of my life BUT I bought it because it is a peaceful, well run community that very rarely has any open or for sale units. There are rules, yes, but everyone who buys in there does so for the knowledge that there will be no hoops, no skateboards and screaming cars down the streets. So please, unless you have experienced this type of community, don't think that they are all pushing walkers and looking for their lost teeth someplace. They have a club for everything, trips to everywhere, golf leagues and God forbid, anyone misses bingo. It holds it's value even in this down market and everyone is involved so it is not the old peoples place to live. :0

But again, a skateboard and hoops put up by a 60 year old is less an issue than the same thing put up by a 16 year old? or a 46 year old?
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 05/27/2008 1:22 PM

Ellen,
I guess that there is a place for everyone and thank God that we are all different. But to give the 55+ style of living a bad rap is just some opinions. There are others who would not do it any other way.
P.S. I live in an all age community

Donna,

Different strokes for different folks unless they step on others rights. I am 76 and would hate living in close contact with old foggies who don't want any lifestle but theirs around them. Very sad. Actually I think having youngsters and old folks interacting is beneficial to all but as you say self interest seems to rule.
JimM7 (Florida)
Posts: 71
Posted:
Ellen...that's why in this country you have a choice.........
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
I've got my own little "cute" story to throw in here. A few years ago my husband and I moved into a gorgous condo community on the Intercoastal Waterway. It was a 55+ with a lot of "stuffy" people living there. My husband was over 55 but I was 35 years younger than him (Yes, you read correctly---35 years younger.) So I looked like a 25 year old "Barbie Doll" walking around there. I was shunned and looked at with distain all the time. I'd be laying by the pool and was constantly asked "who I belonged to" or "who I was visiting". I had to always explain that I was a resident. I knew I had to work very hard to get the approval of people. I set to working helping out other residents whenever possible; taking them to appointments, helping them with personal chores, helping put up holiday decorations. The day I heard one elder woman say that I was "like a breath of fresh air around here", I knew I was accepted.

When Hurricane Elena came in 1985 we had a midnight evacuation order. I went door to door in my building making sure that everyone had a ride or a place to go.

My husband is now gone and I own a condo in another community; one that allows all ages. I'd give anything to be able to return to that 55+ community. But I have a few years before I'd "qualify" to live there.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
If we all had neighbors such as you many problems of hoas would be solved. It's all about consideration of others and you certainly prove how important it is to be a good neighbor.

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