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LisaS11 (California)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Hello fellow HOA members,
It's been a while since I have posted, but I have still been reading. My question for you is whether it is legal or not to sell blank secret ballots to board candidates. There are many people in our HOA who are bad-mouthing the use of proxies. Some of these people are candidates. They are instead buying Secret Ballots from our General Manager's staff, and going door-to-door, asking people to fill out secret ballots. I have confirmed that at least 5 out the ten candidates were not informed that secret ballots could be purchased at the club house front desk, nor was the Election Committee Chairperson informed.

What say you?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Purchased? For how much?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Are they "selling" the ballots or simply charging a fee for blank copies of them? Davis-Stirling has strict procedures for voting you can see them at www.davis-stirling.com

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LisaS11 (California)
Posts: 38
Posted:
The blank ballots are being sold at the cost of printing.

Our By laws allows the use of proxies. When we had our election orientation meeting, the chairperson explained the rules. Anyone collecting proxies would turn them in, they would be verified, and then on election day, we would buy the exact number of blank ballots needed to convert our proxies to ballots at a cost of .34 cents per ballot.

Those were the rules explained to everyone. Now I find out that at least one candidate was able to go up to the front desk and just buy some blank ballots so that he could take those door to door. What really stinks is that a cash drawing is available this year for anyone who votes via secret ballot. Proxy voters are not eligible. So, that means this candidate is using secret ballots, and can tell people they're entered into the cash drawing, while the rest of us are collecting proxies, and these people are not eligible for the prize. And who's keeping an eye on the blank ballots? The teen-ager manning the front desk? Shouldn't those be kept under lock and key and every ballot accounted for?

What stinks even more is that the people who made up the rules (charging proxy holders .34 per ballot and making proxy voters ineligible for the prize) HATE proxies, and the charge of .34 per ballot was intended to punish those who use them. I collected 240 proxies last year. Geez- so now I am being charged to serve as a volunteer? I shouldn't have to pay for a blank ballot- they should be thanking me. If we don't make quorum, we just wasted printing and postage for 3,400 homes. I think providing a couple hundred blank ballots to me so we actually have an election is worth it, don't you think? And I'm not whining about having to pay what they claim is a "negligable fee". I really can't afford it. My family is single income. I'm a stay at home mom and our mortgage is $3,500 a month and we have to watch every single penny and we honestly cannot afford this! My husband and I have no money to donate to help out our community, so we donate our time.

Oh yeah- and one of this year's election committee members was last year's board president. He called me last year when I was a challenger and told me "you don't know what you're getting yourself into. If you get elected, you'll get sued and lose your home." After he discovered I had collected 240 proxies (I was smart and kept them a secret until the election day) he was able to "miracle" 35 or so secret ballots. He claims he went door to door and asked people if they still had their ballots, and that's how he collected them. I doubt it. I knocked on 800 doors last year and NOT ONE person could find their secret ballot. I think the GM gave this guy a stack of blank ballots. Our GM KNEW that several of us took exception to this last year, and here she is again this year, giving ballots out to some, and not to others.

What do I do?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Lisa,

You asked what can you do? In a nutshell, mount a campaign to have these board members removed! It's most likely too late this year, but there's always next year. Charging people to get a ballot is ludicrous! A ballot should be included with each annual meeting notice. As someone else suggested, check out the Davis Sterling Act on elections, although this is probably not addressed.

Just when you think you've heard it all, someone comes along with a real zinger!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Lisa,

Lot of strange goings on here. At least to me. I must admit, I've never heard of anything like this before. I think you need to check the Davis-Stirling Act to see if anything like this is described there. Although, it may not be covered there. You might also have to check California's laws governing corporations.

Two things jump out at me though. One is that a current president should never be on a nominating committee. Standard parliamentary practice advises against this. Another is the statement that "if you get elected you'll get sued." For an HOA your size, I assume you have D&O insurance. That's what that is for. It's to protect the board members in case they get sued. Also, I would bet that your documents and your state laws include provisions for indemnifying board and committee members. That means that the association agrees to pay for your defense and cover any damages awarded (which is why they buy D&O insurance - so the insurance company pays that instead).
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
good FSM, this sounds like Chicago voting, minus the dead bodies.
I can see no conceivable way this can be legal, it seems there are too many processes in play, and half those processes are nullified by the other half, and neither half is done properly. This seems so rife for abuse, i cannot imagine it standing up to ANY scrutiny, let alone a decent challenge.

One onwer, one vote. With this system, it seems i could end up with one owner, 3 votes if done "sneaky".
LisaS11 (California)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Hi Mary, and thanks for the response. I am currently a Director, but was in the minority in a close vote in which the majority (who dislike proxies) voted to:

a) charge proxy holders .34 cents per secret ballot
b)not disclose who has or has not voted to the election committee, the directors, or the candidates

Each homeowner received a ballot in the mail free of charge, but as you all know, most people throw it away. Most of us have the same dilemma- no proxies=no quorum. The majority of the Board doesn't want to make quorum. Why? Because they get to keep their seat without working for it. Obviously, it makes it darn near impossible for a challenger to ever have a shot to get on the board, especially with such a large HOA like ours. I knocked on 800 doors, and so did a couple other people, and we barely made quorum- the first time in over 4 years.

LisaS11 (California)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Hi Bruce,

The president who threatened me was the President of the HOA at the time he made the threat. He was choosing to not run for re-election. He was not on the Election Committee at the time he was president- he was on the committee this year.

Last year, he tried to scare me into dropping out of the race, more than likely because he had planned on NOT making quorum so his buddy could inherit his open seat. Instead, a few of us managed to get enough proxies to make quorum, and he had to scramble to get enough votes to get his friend elected. That's when he showed up to our adjourned annual meeting with 35 or so secret ballots. I imagine all seven votes per ballot went to his friend.

I checked Davis Sterling, and not only is what's happening here unethical, it's also ILLEGAL. Anyone going door to door with blank secret ballots and soliciting votes is guilty of a misdemeanor. The only way you can solicit votes door to door is via an official proxy.

I want to know why, as a director, I wasn't told there were "ballots for sale" that I could pick up and hit the streets with, and neither were 4 of the other candidates told, nor was the Election Chairperson. I want to know why our GM thought it was OK to sell ballots to a candidate. She should know better. Isn't it her job to know the HOA laws? This cannot be dismissed as a novice error- not when you're making six figures. Even if she claims she didn't know it was illegal, why weren't all of the candidates given the same opportunity to purchase ballots?

All I know is I had better get a FULL accounting of the 500 extra ballots that were printed. I want to know how many were sold and to whom. I want to know where each of those ballots are. If it's just a few, I suppose we can repair the damage, but if there's more than 50 ballots unaccounted for, you can bet I'm going to raise Hell. I'm already a director. I suppose I could just do nothing, and we won't make quorum, but that's wrong.
JaneK (California)
Posts: 175
Posted:
A judge would most likely overturn that election.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=02443615612+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
Jane
KarenS11 (Florida)
Posts: 148
Posted:
This could not happen in our HOA. There are secret ballots that are cast by those in attendance at the meeting. Our PM checks off the sign-in sheet as each ballot is turned in at the meeting.

Then there are proxies that have been submitted for those who will not be at the meeting. How can a ballot be accepted for someone that is not at the meeting? If someone submits a proxy and then attends the meeting after all, the proxy not used and the resident votes a ballot.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Lisa,

On gosh this sounds worse than the Florida election in 2000.
MD (California)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Lisa: I cannot believe what you describe is in keeping with the requirements of the Davis-Stirling Act election requirements. In fact, what you describe is what the act is designed to prevent. I don't understand how voter confidentiality is maintained and I don't understand the charging for a ballot thing. If a member shows up at the annual meeting to vote without a ballot, is the member charged for a ballot? Did the HOA hire an inspector of elections? What is the inspector of elections' opinion? If you go to www.leginfo.ca.gov, you may review the relevant Civil Code in its entirety (read 1363.03 through 1363.09). That being said, you may sue the HOA in small claims court. That means no attorneys and the HOA may be fined $500 for each violation. Beth Grimm also has great articles on the new election rules on her Web site at www.californiacondoguru.com. I haven't heard of anything like your situation but nothing surprises me with regard to HOAs any longer-
JaneK (California)
Posts: 175
Posted:
http://www.cahomelaw.org/ has some info on small claims court.
Jane
IreneC (North Carolina)
Posts: 111
Posted:
This along with the post about the free boooze.. really makes me think that bass ackwards hoa is not that bad.. lol
LisaS11 (California)
Posts: 38
Posted:
HI all,
sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I have been busy collecting proxies, etc. As of today, we still do not have a full accounting of the "extra" ballots, and the staff is getting defensive and offended that we would dare question them on this after all the dedicated years they have served our community. Well in my opinion, an employee shouldn't get so offended when all anyone is asking for is an accurate accounting of the ballots...especially when it's the HOA's accountant we're asking! There shouldn't be any hurt feelings- it's just business.

I know I could file a suit and stop the election, but that's not what I want to do. We have a HUGE HOA- 3,400+ homes, and the printing/mailing of new ballots alone would cost another $10,000, not to mention the anger and loss of confidence the homeowners would have if we threw out the election. I think it would be a terrible blow to the morale of everyone.

I'm going to have to choose my battles. With all the foreclosures and thousands of dollars a month in bad debt write-offs and a slumping economy, I would feel awful about wasting another 10k for another election. The four other candidates who were excluded from the opportunity to purchase blank ballots have all decided to let it go for now, and just chalk it up to yet another ruse from the opposition to prevent quorum so they can appoint their old pal to the vacant seat, or cheat their way into it by pilfering ballots.

I am still in awe of their bumbling duplicity- GEEZ- with all the time they spend plotting and scheming, they could have just spent the time collecting proxies! Sometimes I want to shake them and yell, "It's just an HOA board, and you don't even get paid! You shouldn't want to win so bad you're willing to cheat!"
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Lisa,

My only comment is on the cost of a mailing. You stated: "We have a HUGE HOA- 3,400+ homes, and the printing/mailing of new ballots alone would cost another $10,000,. . ." The postage would be roughly $1,400. How is the additional $8,600 accounted for? Are they using gold embossed paper? Just curious.
IreneC (North Carolina)
Posts: 111
Posted:
No.. how much you want to bet that they have a friend who has a printing shop?

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