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AngelaW3 (Kansas)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I'm on a board of 5 members with a president who wants to enforce rules on some homeowners, but not on her neighbors or friends. Currently, we have a homeowner who installed an outdoor electrical fan on his patio. Bylaws state "no protrusions". Instead of telling him that fan has to come down, she is trying to "ammend" a bylaw so he can keep the fan. The homeowner was also supposed to come to the board and ask permission. We have already had two homeowners take down window a/c's because they were considered "protrusions". I told them if they don't follow the bylaw, I'm going to build an over hang on top of my deck and put in my own outdoor fan. How can I make them follow the bylaws?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
The president has no authority to unilaterally enforce anything, unless your bylaws say he or she does, and I'll bet your bylaws don't say that.

If the board decides that the rules must be enforced, your president is obligated to comply, otherwise the president can be removed for cause.

Some presidents get the idea that they are "in charge," forgetting how they became president in the first place. The people who elect the president are the boss; not the other way around. IMO, presidents who become "dictators" should be set straight, or removed.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AngelaW3 on 05/15/2008 10:36 PM
I'm on a board of 5 members with a president who wants to enforce rules on some homeowners, but not on her neighbors or friends. Currently, we have a homeowner who installed an outdoor electrical fan on his patio. Bylaws state "no protrusions". Instead of telling him that fan has to come down, she is trying to "ammend" a bylaw so he can keep the fan. The homeowner was also supposed to come to the board and ask permission. We have already had two homeowners take down window a/c's because they were considered "protrusions". I told them if they don't follow the bylaw, I'm going to build an over hang on top of my deck and put in my own outdoor fan. How can I make them follow the bylaws?

AngelaW3,

I agree with Bruce entirely. “IF” your association should be enforcing the governing documents, on ALL, not whom are select few, by ONE board member.

You’re a member of a five board team. Why is the president saying what goes, the majority WILL ALWAYS WIN THAT BATTLE. You’ve got to have some back bone! If you can’t get other board members, in agreement with you, to enforce your governing documents, equally and fairly; then as suggested, turn to the members of the community. I’m certain they will have a difference of opinion.

Chuck W.


Charles E. Wafer Jr.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
bruce and charles offer great advice.

your president doesn't get to MAKE the rules, the board is there to enforce them, fairly, equitably.
AngelaW3 (Kansas)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I have went as far as publicly humiliating them on our web site and putting up postings around the condoplex about what is happening, but some homeowners think I'm a trouble maker and other homeowners are to afraid to get involved. It's a constant fight. I want to resign, but at the same time, I know that is exactly what they want so they can run this place into the ground. Angie
ClaudiaH (Kentucky)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Angela,

I suggest the next time you are tempted to deal with this situation on your own, you fire off a post here asking for advice first. I'm guessing there are lots of people who have been in your very situation who have had experience (either good or bad) that they can share.

Having had a few years of experience in dealing with humans, I don't think it's a good idea to ever start an outright attack on someone. I believe it has a polarizing effect. You may gain some support, but you will also encourage some to sympathize with your adversary and the end result is just a confrontation on a larger scale then the one you originally had.

The board members are elected officers. The only ones who really need to be involved, are the other board members. If you all agree the president needs to go, you need to follow your bylaws to initiate the process to get rid of that person. If your bylaws don't offer guidance, then you may want to propose a change to the bylaws which would offer future guidance. If your feelings aren't the same as the majority of the board members, then you're outnumbered. You can quit your position if it's bothering you too much.

But I think the idea that the neighborhood will go to hell if the president is allowed to stay, is probably an exaggeration. If the neighborhood takes a turn for the worst, I'm assuming the usually apathetic homeowners will decide to take action. I'm in the same boat as you at the moment. Our neighborhood mutineers are threatening to run for the board and then do nothing to enforce the restrictions, because some (small percentage) feel the board micro-manages. While their anger may be fueling them to make such threats, I believe they'd be hard pressed to follow through. The neighborhood is self-healing. Meaning, if it does to go hell in a handbasket (yards looking atrocious, cans left out, satellite dishes hanging from front doors), I'm sure it will get the attention of the homeowners (who have to date been unconcerned with the importance of enforcing the restrictions).

I personally think you have to weigh how and when your voice will be heard. You may have been better off resigning, and then encouraging other homeowners to put pressure on the board to do their jobs, rather than be seen as a rogue protester.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Angela:

After being a transplant in the state of Kansas I can sympathize with your plight, our state offers little resource for HOA's. However, the post you made about some homeowners thinking you are a trouble maker probably wasn't the right action for you at the time. Public humiliation never serves any purpose because people tend to sympathize with that person unless the evidence is overwhelming. I think instead of personally attacking someone you should focus efforts on recruiting friends to run for the board or getting more involved in the HOA and outline the benefits not only them but the association can derive from it.

IF the president unilaterally decides to enforce some and not enforce others she and the board are opening themselves up to a lawsuit. Follow the provisions in your documents for dealing with board members you want to remove, there should be something in there. Recruit other homeowners to run and start a positive campaign. Negative campaigning does not work, IMO. Lastly, if she is doing this perhaps your insurance company should be informed so they can inform her that intentional and malicious disregard for the rules is not covered by your D&O insurance should a lawsuit occur. Perhaps knowing that she is opening herself up personally for a lawsuit might change her tune.

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Claudia said in reply to Angela:"But I think the idea that the neighborhood will go to hell if the president is allowed to stay, is probably an exaggeration.

Sorry but Angela could very well be right on, in her thinking...I have the same President and her clons (appointed BOD's by her) in her camp...We have no amenities to speak of, a small lake w/a small pier, there are only 77 TH units and we are paying $818 a year, and this President has told us the fees would be going up and even prehaps a special assessment....Why? because this President has changed landscapers 6 times in less than two years, costing us additional money, this President has hired 3 MC's (actually one quit because of her) in less than three years because she didn't like them (costing us additional money). As I have stated in many post, the delinquent accounts have gone from 6 (at take over) to 14 (totaling $15,500.)because after telling them many times we need a good collection policy, this was never done...We also have no violation enforcement policy. At our last meeting Mar31st. they decided to add a late fee and interest to the delinquent accounts retro to Jan....The MC sent out invioces reflecting these charges to HO's that were delinquent even though a couple had paid in Feb (due Jan1st)....all hxxx broke loose. I had told them this could not be done, HO's had to be notified of this new policy in writing in advance of inactment. Any rules or policy changes MUST be given to HO's before becoming effective. So now we have HO's not paying anything and believe me there will be alot more come Jan when the dues go up and we are getting nothing in return....Mind you, I said we could not pay our expenses (OUT OF MONEY)when it came close to assessments being due (took from our underfunded Reserve account and also never funded the Reserves for over a year even thought there is a line item in our Budget)...then the President hired a MC that charges us twice what the HO's were paying....If we could not meet expenses then how does she think we can do it now....I don't believe HO's will go for this raise (she can raise it 10% w/o HO approval) but I just know we are going to have more delinquents. This will bankrupt our association....I know HO apathy is much to blame... because in Nov. I wrote a long letter and mailed to every HO what has been done...I received a response from three(3)HO's....

Forty(40) of our shrubs have been pulled up (two years ago) and have never been replaced, the flower borders have been taken up (two years ago) and never replaced, the path to the pier had the borders removed(two years ago) and the Board said they are letting the path grow over w/grass (two years ago) and still not covered....She has wasted time and money(extra money for MC) twice (1st time over a year ago) to send out satelitte letters HO for dish removal to back of unit, she must know they cannot enforce the removal plus we don't have a violation policy anyway so why would HO's care. I got a copy of the list and guess who wasn't on the list, the V President whos satelitte can be seen from the street. We have a no commerical vehicles in CC&Rs, guess who has a commerical vehicle (w/logo and ladders) the V President, parked in the middle of the cul de sac. When a complaint came to the Board, the President said this is not a problem but if a semi was brought in she would do something, how's that for being selective. When I say this Board had done nothing right, this is the honest to goodness truth.

We can never get out of the financial mess w/o a large "Special assessment"....I believe the HO's could understand this if our community had been kept up to par....IMO, most of our problems are because of inadequate management (by both Board & MC) by hiring and firing service providers and a MC costing us twice what we were paying...I begged them to lets get a vote on self management (could not be worse than what we have) in 2007 and get ourselves out of this financial hole, I even volunteered to do most of the work involved. If it didn't work out then go back to MC. She wouldn't even consider it and now we are triple in the red.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Angela,

Probably the most important advice that some of us will give to you is "DO NOT FIRE OFF ANY WHAT YOU CALL HUMILIATING E-MAILS OR POSTINGS" That does make you look like a troublemaker, childish and against the very Board that you sit on. The most important thing that you should learn is that if the other Board members approve any protrusin, then you do have to get information out to all of the members. Show proof of your claim that the outdoor fan is not a legal installation. You have to work within the system and yes, it is sad that Kansas is not up to speed on HOA laws. Sometimes it takes a try or two to get members involved. Do you not have an association lawyer? He could interpret that covenant for the Board.
ScottW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I am working with a legislator currently is an effort to improve upon the lack of any oversight of HOA BOD in the State of Kansas. I would encourage everyone to do the same in order to effect change.

I too have a BOD that do not follow the bylaws. When in conflict with the bylaws, they simply write in a change to the bylaws or write what they call a new rule, which they believe superceeds the bylaws. Examples, the original bylaws state that each BOD member is only to serve one term. Someone has written in an extension for everyone into the bylaws. Our bylaws state the the President must approve and sign all checks. He does not even have the check book, the property manager does and he writes the checks. They came up with a new rule that now states they can do this. Our property manager is a resident and at one time board member, turned property manager.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Scott,

Welcome to the forum

Good advice but this thread is over 4 years old.

Reactivating old threads can lead to confusion as laws change. Therefore what might have been good advice in 2008 might be bad advice in 2012. This is why it's best to start new threads.

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