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MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Quick overview on the situation....

We are a small development of around 40 homes. Our budget is only around $7000 for the entire year. Part of that budget goes towards our landscaping expenses. The development is about 5 years old, and since the association has been turned over to the board, a homeowner has been doing the landscaping. Granted he did give us a break on cost, it has become a problem, including that we have felt that we were unable to approach the person with issues, because he was also our neighbor. So now that the development is establised, and our account has reached a years worth of operating expenses the baord has decided not to allow members of the association to bid on the landscaping. This has resulted in an increase of $100 per month in landscaping fees. And that is even a deal, we recieved several bids. The homeowner who will no longer be doing the landscaping is upset and wants to keep the contract. And has even gone so far as to write up his own budget, even dropping his costs $150 less a month then the other company and is going around showing other homeowners. My question to everyone on the panel is, do we need to approach the entire community before deciding not to hire members to do contract work? Or can the board hold a vote on their own? Is it not better business practice not to hire a member to do contracted work? Do you feel it is a conflict of interest?

Sorry, I tried to be short!

I appreciate your feedback. Just want to be fair to everyone.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MindyR on 05/09/2008 11:55 AM
Quick overview on the situation....
My question to everyone on the panel is, do we need to approach the entire community before deciding not to hire members to do contract work? Or can the board hold a vote on their own? Is it not better business practice not to hire a member to do contracted work? Do you feel it is a conflict of interest?

No, the board was elected to manage the money. They can decide contracts, etc. without a mass meeting.
It is better to hire a professional than a hobbyist. That being said, my former HOA used the services of a member. He was cheaper, AND, he did a better job than the professionals, by far! If your member is cheaper and does a better job, he should be considered. If he is just cheaper, but the job isn't professional, responsive, etc., then he really isn't cheaper to deal with... just less money, but not less time and hassle. go with the pro then.

MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Thank you so much! I feel now, that we have made the right decision here. And I'm sure the other homeowners will back us on this.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
My first comment: How is it ethical to change a bid after the fact? It's easy to low-ball when you already know what other bidders are coming it at.

That being said, we had a resident/member who was "awarded" our landscaping "contract" years ago.

We were told by the chair of the Arch Committee that this person had "the lowest bid" and that since he was a member of the community, he would have a vested interest in doing a good job. Oh, and since he had to buy the equipment, he wanted us to "lock" him into an 8-year contract so he could be sure to be able to pay off the equipment.

We balked and asked to see all the bids. The Arch Committee chair provided a hand-written page that listed a few names and their quotes. The member/resident's quote WAS the lowest, but we would not agree to an 8-year contract. The most we would do is 2 years at a time.

After the first 2 years were up, the Arch Committee Chair said he again put bids out and the resident/member's bid was the lowest by "thousands of dollars" and tried to again pressure us into a long-term contract. Again, we would only agree to 2, max.

Woe is us for not properly following up on all this.

At a treasurer change=over the new treasurer noticed we did not have a Tax ID number for the resident/member and called to get it. We also noticed we did not have copies of 1099s filed.

Turns out it was all a big lie. The chair of the Arch Committee "rigged" the bids. We were actually being charged MORE than the current professional lawncare service we have now. Ironically, by THOUSANDS of dollars! Plus, they had worked it so that the resident would not have to report our payments to him as income.

So, long story short, it doesn't HAVE to be a conflict of interest for a resident/member to be awarded a contract from an HOA, it just happens that more times than not, it turns out that way.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mindy,

We also have a homeowner who is our landscape contract vendor. He cares more than some guy with a million contracts and associations to handle. First he volunteered to sit on the ARC committee (very valuable with landscape knowledge) and then because he really wanted to do it. There was and is no conflict of interest with this because HE did not have any vote as to yes or no on the contract. He put in a bid for the landscape contract. He adjusted his quote after we opened the other bids and he was awarded the job. But most importantly, he is a professional landscaper and has a license and insurance. So just make sure that this part of your resident/landscaper is insured and licensed if nescessary.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If the bidding process was "blind" i.e. submitted bids don't indicate names, only a code number for ID purposes, and the figures are gone over without knowing the name of the vendor - then you would not have this problem.

This person should not be sitting on the board for the purpose of trying to get contracts. It will be interesting to see if he stays on the board.

On the other hand, if he is doing a good job, why not extend the contract at the same rate year by year?

(It's possible that the reason he wants an 8 yr. contract is that contracts become business "equity" if he goes for a bank loan or wants to sell the business.)

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Susan, I'm the one who had the landscaping contractor ask for an 8-year contract, not the original poster.

Also, per her post, I think he is just a resident of the community and not a board member.

In my case, the contractor wasn't on the board, but his good friend was, and his good friend was the one who claimed to have "bidded out" the process. Except that he really didn't. He just made up the other quotes and pretended the contractor was the lowest bid.

The guy wanted an 8-year contract to pay for his purchase of the lawn mowing equipment. He is self-employed and was using our "contract" as tax-free income for himself to run a lawn mowing service.

It was bad news all the way around.

After the friend of his left the board, we changed the process for obtaining bids. Now the entire board must review all bids, and not just one person. The former Arch Committee chairman talked the board members into letting him determine the bid awards since he has "subcontracting" experience. We don't do that anymore.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Mindy,

As you can see from the responses, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It all depends upon the people involved --

Your board needs to develop a policy and stick to it. This policy should cover whether or not contracts with members will be considered, the bid process and how contracts are awarded. The members do not need to be consulted. As one other poster mentioned, the board is charged with operating the assn. not the members. Although I'm a huge proponent of board transparency, I'm not in favor of a board asking for member input on every hard decision they're faced with. IMO, oftentimes it's just a cop-out for being afraid to do their job. Making tough decisions comes with the territory. If you go about it in an objective manner, whicle considering all the options, you can't go wrong. There will always be some members who won't agree with your decisions. However, that would be the case even if you asked for their approval!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 05/10/2008 8:25 AM
Although I'm a huge proponent of board transparency, I'm not in favor of a board asking for member input on every hard decision they're faced with. IMO, oftentimes it's just a cop-out for being afraid to do their job. Making tough decisions comes with the territory. If you go about it in an objective manner, whicle considering all the options, you can't go wrong. There will always be some members who won't agree with your decisions. However, that would be the case even if you asked for their approval!

IMO the reason almost nothing gets done in Washington or when it is done it's bad for the country. Woe be the politician that does what's right as opposed to what's popular. But I digress, I now return you to the regular forum. It's also the reason IMO HOA's have a lot of the problems we see here; board members who are so afraid of being unpopular they're afraid of making the hard decisions, preferring to pass the problem onto the next BOD.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Glen,

Glad to know you agree with me. :-) In my former assn we had a board pres who was like this. He was V.P. under my husband then became Pres. when Terry's term was up. On practically every issue b/4 the board he would ask the members present how they would vote. I asked him once if he thought this was a fair thing to do as all the members in the assn who weren't present weren't being given the opportunity to vote or express their feelings on the matter. Of course he didn't like my question. But his problem was that he didn't want to "offend" anyone by doing something they didn't agree with. IMO, people like that shouldn't even be on the board. But, of course, we all know how hard it is to get anyone to run!
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Check your covenants. Ours specifically state that no owner may be paid for any service but can only be reimbursed for any cash they lay out for the association.

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