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JamesB2 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our association in Georgia has a resident who has erected a nonconforming structure on his lot. We, the board, have decided that we intend to exercise the remedies afforded us by the CCRs, which means giving notice to either remove it or we'll remove it for him. We have also indicated that we are willing to allow him to initiate the approval process, as long as he does so within the timeframe identified in the notice, and have given no guarantee that the structure will be approved.

My question is this: This home is currently for sale. Is the resident required to disclose the situation during the sales process, or should we do it for him by serving notice on the realtor as well? Our fear is that (although pretty unlikely in this market), the property will change hands before the time allowed by our notice(a reasonable 30 days) expires.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
They are responsible for disclosing this...I have never been a fan of an HOA getting in the middle of a home sale...others will disagree with me.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 05/02/2008 12:04 PM
. . .I have never been a fan of an HOA getting in the middle of a home sale...others will disagree with me.

Not me. I agree totally.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
I would agree that the HOA should not directly notify any potential buyer of the problem. But, isn't there a type of lien than can be filed against a property that would "cloud" the title and essentially prevent any escrow from closing until the lien is cleared? If your state allows such a thing, it would ensure that the non-conforming structure is removed before the property changes hands.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If this home changes hands, and the violation is still standing, the new owner could claim that he was never informed about the violation, so you all can go stuff it.

The seller has been notified about the violation and you didn't get a response. To protect the process, I think that the SELLER's real estate agent needs to know about the violation - ASAP. You must be sure the right parties are notified about the issue. The seller is playing dumb.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DwightT on 05/02/2008 12:33 PM
I would agree that the HOA should not directly notify any potential buyer of the problem. But, isn't there a type of lien than can be filed against a property that would "cloud" the title and essentially prevent any escrow from closing until the lien is cleared? If your state allows such a thing, it would ensure that the non-conforming structure is removed before the property changes hands.

Not that I am aware of, if the agent does their job and the title company does their job the question will be asked to the owner if there are any issues with the property, if they fail to disclose that information they are legally liable to the purchasers if they so chose to go after them.
JamesB2 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I guess, from our position, we are relying on a whole lot of people to do the right thing (through disclosure, etc.), when it's been our experience things do not always happen that way (failure of new owners to be issued CCRs at closing, for example). Another scenario could involve the sale of the home going through, and all of a sudden we show up with bulldozers to remove the structure much to the surprise of the new owner. I know that a debt, eg unpaid dues, follows the owner of the property at the time the dues were payable, but if the Association's only real mechanism to recover the costs associated with restoring the property to its original condition is by a lien on the title of the property, I would fear a judge's reaction when he finds out the lien was placed against a deed transferred to another owner.

Again, our intention is to not contact any potential buyers directly, but rather convey the information to the realtor, who must disclose or risk his/her license. It just seems to us that too many scenarios exist under which we'd end up spending a lot of money chasing the ghost of the previous owner.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
James:

First I would be very cautious about entering someone's property without a court order and police presence. Too many bad scenarios. The nonconforming structure does not automatically become conforming when the home sells, unfortunately the new owner would find themselves in a situation where they would have to fix it if everything fell through the cracks. Their recourse is to sue the seller who should have disclosed this at settlement. I don't see a need to rush to judgement on your part.
JamesB2 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Agreed regarding the unannounced and unescorted entry. From what I understand, it is difficult to even find a crew willing to do it. Of course, this entire exchange has been based on the premise that the owner does not do the right thing. Presumptive on our part, but we have some history with this owner. We just don't want to get left holding the proverbial bag if the property sells. Also don't want to risk alienating the new owner. However, rules is rules, and residents are complaining.

I've done a little informal asking around in the local real estate community -- asking realtors I know whether or not they would want to know if they were the listing agent. Concensus seems to be that we should copy the realtor. FWIW.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
You've notified the owner and that is where your involvement should end...unless you want to be sued by the owner for potentially causing a buyer to be scared off. It is his responsibility to notify any buyer and if he doesn't then the buyer will have a cause for action against him.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DJ1 on 05/02/2008 2:29 PM
You've notified the owner and that is where your involvement should end...unless you want to be sued by the owner for potentially causing a buyer to be scared off. It is his responsibility to notify any buyer and if he doesn't then the buyer will have a cause for action against him.

I think DJ makes a great statement...even if he sells you still have recourse with the new owner.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
SusanW said: "If this home changes hands, and the violation is still standing, the new owner could claim that he was never informed about the violation, so you all can go stuff it. "

Certainly he can "claim" that, but he would still have to remove the non-conforming structure.

If you have all your ducks in a row regarding proof the seller was "noticed" and removal was demanded, and proper time to remove was given, yet he sells before removing the structure, you are good to go and the new owner will have no recourse but to correct the violation.

After all, the CC&Rs run with the land. He agreed to purchase the land with all due and legal encumbrances . . . including CC&Rs.

He will need to take it up in court with the seller; but he will still need to correct the violation.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
JamesB2: I'm curious as to the Board wanting to take action 'after the fact'. You state the Board:
- has 'history' with this homeowner on other issues
- would need a bulldozer to dismantle the structure (size???)
- owner did not follow 'rules' re structure

You now, at sale of unit, want to take action against the present owner, or possibly the new owner, and do not know how to proceed. Did the Board serve this owner notice at start of the structure? Why did the Board allow the structure, once began, to continue without proper procedure being followed?

It sounds as if any action on the Board's part may be just a little too late.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
James,'

Have you researched to see if GA has HOA statutes. Some states have laws stating what must be disclosed to a potential buyer.

If the current owner is not made to correct this situation b/4 he sells the home, you cannot require the new owner to make this change. You just cannot go after someone who purchased a home with an unapproved A/C change that was there when the home was purchased. It isn't the new owner's fault that the board didn't do their job to enfore the A/C standards b/4 the home was sold.

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that the board has the authority to bring an A/C modification into conformance if the homeowner refuses to do so. I've heard of the board having the authority to cut the grass, trim the trees & bushes, etc. but only after giving the h/o notice that the board will be doing this at his expense. But never have I heard of the board having the legal authority to do as you say. Have you thoroughly checked your gov. docs. regarding this issue?
JamesB2 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
PaulM,

The structure was erected in the last two weeks, and was done without anyone noticing until it was finished (our community is made up of multi-acre lots). All construction activity occurred at times when no one in the immediate area was home. The home has been on the market for over two months. I strongly suspect that the building was erected at the suggestion of the realtor in order to help the home sell -- it's a slab home with a 1.5 car garage and the offending structure is a 12'x16' shed. CCRs are very clear -- no outbuilding shall be erected either temporary or permanent. Goes on to say that in the event the structure is allowed, it must be built on poured slab or foundation.

I won't go into the 'history' other than to say that the owner is clearly aware of the CCRs, because he has used them as a tool in the past to suit his interests.

As for being too late, I disagree 100%. Our CCRs clearly state that remedy is return of the property to its previous condition by the Association with costs (including legal fees) levied against the owner through special assessment. The wording of the CCRs even indicates that a future Board could take such action against any existing structure that was built without Board approval. Point is, if you build the structure without approval, you are at risk to lose it at any point in the future. My research would indicate that Georgia tends to side with the Association on these types of issue, and certainly the courts are part of the ultimate solution assuming the owner does not cooperate. I have no question that the CCRs are enforcable. My original inquiry was whether or not is was appropriate to involve the realtor.
JamesB2 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
MaryA1,

Georgia, in fact, has addressed HOAs and their operation in the codes. CCRs are rock solid. See response to PaulM.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
JamesB2: You may want to consult your local municipal codes/laws on construction of a shed. Perhaps a permit needed to be issued, and if so, that is the time when the local officials tend to get involved in community construction projects.

In this case, you may have them as your ally, especially if a permit was necessary but not secured, and further, if certain codes/bldg. standards were not met. It may be worth a try for you to contact the local office to learn of their regulations which would apply to anyone living in the municipality.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Another good reason to always buy title insurance. Title insurers in our area at least will pay to correct building code violations as well as title issues.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
James,

Just when you say you've never heard of such a thing, someone says "well, that's what my docs say.!

Now, you say GA does address HOA by statute; so is there a statute regarding disclosure to a potential buyer. This is definitely a disclosure issue so perhaps the realtor should be informed of the problem his client has created. A realtor once told me that once you tell a realtor something about a particular property they are obligated to pass on the info to a potential buyer. Of course another realtor could sell the property and the buyer would not be aware of what you told the listing agent.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Mary said: "You just cannot go after someone who purchased a home with an unapproved A/C change that was there when the home was purchased. It isn't the new owner's fault that the board didn't do their job to enfore the A/C standards b/4 the home was sold. "

Mary, we can and in fact have done this. It was a similar situation where a homeowner erected an outbuilding that was not allowed at the time (we now allow certain types of outbuildings, but this one would not have passed our new specs anyway.)

He managed to sell the property while we were in the middle of our process requesting compliance.

The new owner initially refused to take down the shed. After attorneys got involved, the shed was removed. Actually, they ended up removing it before they even moved in.

It was unfortunate that the new owner had to get the distasteful end of CC&R enforcement, but that was the fault of the previous owner.

We have heard that the new owners had made some legal move against the previous owner, but have no idea how that turned out.

Coincidentally, the "new owners" back then (a few years ago) are now the residents who are running the illegal day care center.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

I guess it can get touchy when there is a sale in progress. However, I just don't think it's fair for the new homeowner to inherit this type of a problem. IMO, it just doesn't promote a very friendly atmosphere for a new homeowner. Just my opinion, of course. There are a lot of rules I don't think is right, but if I'm a board member I will enforce them and I'm sure you are the same.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Personally, I hate it that we had to do that. But someone had to be responsible for seeing the lot was brought into compliance.

I don't think it was fair either, and had I been the homeowner I would have been ballistic.

However, the one who needs to make it right by them is the seller.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 05/03/2008 2:10 PM
Michele,

I guess it can get touchy when there is a sale in progress. However, I just don't think it's fair for the new homeowner to inherit this type of a problem. IMO, it just doesn't promote a very friendly atmosphere for a new homeowner. Just my opinion, of course. There are a lot of rules I don't think is right, but if I'm a board member I will enforce them and I'm sure you are the same.


Mary:

It may not be right but the seller has the legal obligation to disclose. The buyer does have recourse if it wasn't disclosed to sue the seller for any damages as a result of it. As a potential buyer I wouldn't be mad at the association, I would be mad at the seller for misleading and lying.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Brad,

IAW AZ HOA law, the seller only has the obligation to provide disclosure if the HOA has less than 50 units; for larger assn's it's the HOAs obligation. Now, I know the seller has to disclose certain info in the agreement to sell. Is this where you believe the seller should disclose the CCR violation? Traditionally this disclosure pertains to the house, neighborhood, etc.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Mary IMO this would be no different than any other problem the seller has direct knowledge of and which may affect the buyer's ability to make an informed decision. Because ultimately the buyer will be the one responsible to rectify the problem if the sale goes through before the shed comes down, even if they can go after the seller for compensation. What if that shed is the one feature that sold them on the property as compared to another with no shed. Seems silly I know but I have seen people make decisions over similar things.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 05/04/2008 11:51 AM
Brad,

IAW AZ HOA law, the seller only has the obligation to provide disclosure if the HOA has less than 50 units; for larger assn's it's the HOAs obligation. Now, I know the seller has to disclose certain info in the agreement to sell. Is this where you believe the seller should disclose the CCR violation? Traditionally this disclosure pertains to the house, neighborhood, etc.

Mary:

Yes, that is my belief. I haven't lived in Arizona, but the three 4 states I have lived in that would be part of th disclosure. If the seller has knowledge that may adversly affect the property IMO they are required to disclose. Having a nonconforming structure pertains directly to the property because it is an expense the buyer should be made aware of. They should be afforded the opportunity to make the seller fix as a condition of sale or at least made aware by the seller that it is an issue they will have to address.

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