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GrahamO (Ontario)
Posts: 55
Posted:
Seems to me that many of the postings are related to problems with Management Companies. There is a current thread that describes the problems of getting bank statements from the MC. It’s puzzling to find that cases like these are permitted to go on, and it’s mystifying to wonder why the BOD allows the MC to disregard its responsibilities.

These are all stories of “the tail wagging the dog”. Isn’t the answer simply to have a contract between the association and the MC that spells out the terms of the MC’s engagement? Three important sections bear mentioning. (1) The contract should list a complete range of services the MC will be expected to provide. (2) There should be a clause that says … “in attention to the specific duties outlined, the MC will be expected to provide the BOD with prompt and acceptable responses to all other requests that can reasonably be expected to be answerable by the MC. (3) The MC shall be aware that unsatisfactory service in regard to the carrying out of the MC’s obligations may result in a cancellation of the contract, at which time payment will be made up to the day in which the MC leaves the position.

I am not a lawyer and it would be a good idea to get the above worded in a more “lawyerly” manner. But surely, a good understanding of the duties of the MC, by the MC, and a good understanding of “who’s working for who”, would put a lot the anguish to rest. Agreed?
CathyT1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
I agree. We went through a similar situation in which our past MC was not performing their duties. It seems when you call them on it, their attitude gets even nastier - to make you feel like you are "bad" guy. In my opinion, most of these property managers are either not experienced and/or given too much responsibility (to many units to manage at one time). Luckily, we got rid of the past MC and found an experienced manager that actually does a great job!
BruceK3 (Arizona)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I find that the Management Companies often can drag out issues simply because the Board is made up volunteers who typically have jobs during the day, so much of the business is handled by phone or email during business hours. If a property manager at a management company ever answers the phone it's a rare occasion. Messages can go ignored. Many times, the only face-to-face contact is at the monthly meetings.

I have found with more than one company, that the BOD gets slowed down to the pace of the MC, which will promise to take care of all requests, but when you follow up, you find little or nothing has been done.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
Our Board refuses to take any calls from HO's...everything must go through the MC...The Board gives the MC complete control and all duties which is costing the HO's so much extra money....After 6 years the Board decided to go after satellite dishes on the front of the units, wanting them to be placed out of sight (not seen from the street)...Instead of a Board members counting and logging the addresses themself..( we have 77 units, all on only one street. The President lives in the very last unit on the street, she passes every house every day going and coming from work. So how hard would that be? They had the PM come out, a take pictures of the dishes( one was excluded, the VP's dish???), charging us extra for her time plus mileage. Money the association can't afford. This is a do nothing Board. The MC send out letters to the HO's to remove them or show a letter of proof from the satellite company that is the only place to get the best service....The dumb thing is the Board has never set up a fining policy for anything. We have no enforcement in play.
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SidneyP on 05/01/2008 3:44 PM
Our Board refuses to take any calls from HO's...everything must go through the MC...The Board gives the MC complete control and all duties which is costing the HO's so much extra money....After 6 years the Board decided to go after satellite dishes on the front of the units, wanting them to be placed out of sight (not seen from the street)...Instead of a Board members counting and logging the addresses themself..( we have 77 units, all on only one street. The President lives in the very last unit on the street, she passes every house every day going and coming from work. So how hard would that be? They had the PM come out, a take pictures of the dishes( one was excluded, the VP's dish???), charging us extra for her time plus mileage. Money the association can't afford. This is a do nothing Board. The MC send out letters to the HO's to remove them or show a letter of proof from the satellite company that is the only place to get the best service....The dumb thing is the Board has never set up a fining policy for anything. We have no enforcement in play.

Others here may have different opinions but the Board is supposed to direct the work, not do it themselves. They are unpaid volunteers and are called Directors for a reason; they direct the work. For example, It's understandable they want calls to go via the MC. They are not the HOA help desk, unless they choose to be.

They should however set the policies like the fining policy.

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SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
HOATalk wrote:"Others here may have different opinions but the Board is supposed to direct the work, not do it themselves. They are unpaid volunteers and are called Directors for a reason; they direct the work. For example, It's understandable they want calls to go via the MC. They are not the HOA help desk, unless they choose to be."

They should how ever set the policies like the fining policy.

Granted, we may be volunteers, but I still don't feel that every single thing must be handled by the MC....Some things the Board can do so easily and why not, if it will save the HO's a $100. or more. Our Board gives these instructions to the MC, seek out violations, yet there is no violation policy for enforcement therefore it is a complete waste of time and money....Two years ago, the Board ask the MC to get an estimate on the dead shrubs and sick ones for replacement..the MC did this (extra charge/milage)..guess what, nothing was ever replaced, still exactly as it was. The Board also had them so through this same thing w/the satellites at that time, nothing ever done...In fact this MC quit because the Board was requesting to much of their time. If the Board is never going to follow through with anything then save the HO's money (we don't have), don't bother w/the inspection or sending a letter....The HO's have long learned the Board letters mean nothing. These letters were sent 3 months ago, guess what, the dishes are still there and a new one just went up.

If the Board doesn't have the time to do a few simple things or speak to a HO, then they need to resign and let someone who will communicate with the HO's in our very small community. I think the size of the community makes a lot of difference....
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
We have a situation that I believe needs addressed asap, not after the next meeting, still weeks away, and not when the mc can "get around to it." I have not been given the authority by the board, but have the time, and can begin to gather information, talk to a few people, etc, to have that info ready to present to the board. In fact, if it turns out as I think it night, the situation might be taken care of before the next meeting.
I have time to do some things some of the time, and this is one. One bm has accused me of not acting as a board member, but rather being king, and telling them what to do.
So now what? It's not an emergency that requires a board meeting NOW but needs repaired. Things can work slowly: board meeting several weeks away, then decision as to steps to take, mc addresses problem, agency schedules inspection, inspector submits report, super schedules work according to time/equipment availability, and by then more damage may be done.
Where if I make a phone call or two today, at the very least, things are speeded up. Yes, that bm probably will scream. How the other bms react is anybody's guess.
what would you do?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Sidney,

Before your board goes after satellite dishes, you may want to read the attached document. You might also want to visit

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

The FCC takes a dim view of satellite dish restrictions that exist solely for aesthetic reasons. You can place restrictions on where they can be located, but if the only way the homeowner can get reasonable reception of the programming he wants without excessive cost is to put the antenna where you don't want it (like the front of his house), then you have to allow it.

If you try to enforce your restriction:

1. The HO merely has to file a complaint with the FCC; he doesn't need a lawyer or have to go to court.

2. You can't levy any fines while the issue is pending before the FCC. If the FCC finds in your (the HOA's) favor, the HO has 30 days to comply before you can levy a fine.

3. The FCC places the burden of proof on you (the HOA) to show that your restriction should be upheld. In other words, you have to prove to the FCC that the HO can get adequate reception by installing the antenna according to your restriction.

You can learn all this and more from the FCC's website. There are also actual case histories you can read. I can remember reading one where the HOA tried three separate times to get a homeowner to remove his dish. Each time it went before the FCC, the HOA lost. The one who really gained was the HOA's lawyer!
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BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
JC,

No board member has the authority to act unilaterally. If something needs immediate attention, I would try to get the board together for a special, emergency meeting so we could address it together as a group. That's the way the board is supposed to operate.

However, I see no problem in gathering information to be better prepared for a board meeting.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Sidney, you are correct. The size of a community will affect the need for a MC. I think HOATalk was referring to the primary responsibility of Board members. Establishing policies and procedures should be one key focus of Board members. This includes to what extent MC services are desired. In your example it appears the Board members have not establish adequate policies and procedures. For example, why hasn't your Board established a violation policy? That is not the duty of a MC (although a MC can provide suggestions). Did you Board pay for their request for a bid on replacing the shrubs without receiving it? If so, why? Or did they get the bid and fail to act on it? If so why? Or if the Board received and approved the bid and the job didn't get done, then why did you retain the MC? When a MC quits, I suggest the Board members may need to take responsibility and set better policies and procedures.

A Board needs to decide what the duties of the the management company will be, prior to sending out an RFP. Most MCs will agree to tailor services requested by the association. The Board should create a Management Agreement which spells out the MC authority and duties in detail. And when the Board wants to modify duties, the Agreement can be amended with written approval of both parties.
SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302
Posted:
"why hasn't your Board established a violation policy?"

I have no idea, I have been asking them to do so when I was first on the Board at take over, after I resigned and now again that I am back on the Board. As I stated this is the second time they have decided to go after the satellite dishes, wasting everyones time, knowing darn well there is no enforcement policy....The Board received the bid for shurb replacement (I have a copy in my files) but did nothing, that was over a year ago.

When the Association was working with the first two MC's, for the cheaper fee for $558. a month, the Board was asking to much from them. As above, taking their time to acquire bids and then not acting on the request. The Board complained that they never got replies from phone calls & e-mails, well can you blame them, the MC had no time to waste. on them. With the first MC I was on the Board, the 2nd I was not..but I received everything from them I requested and I even went to the office myself, looking through files to get what I wanted. They did a lot for the HOA/Board....Our President now hired this new MC for almost double the cost and they actually do less for the HOA...They charge extra for every little thing and they refuse to file liens (the old MC did this for us at $20., $10. to file and $10. for their time. If we were to file a lien now it would cost us $325. each by attorney. The Association does not have the money for this so therefore there will be no liens filed on our at moment are 14 delinquenties..a total of $15,400. outstanding.

Once again, I believe that the MC is only as good as the Board....the HOA can only survive if there is a adaquate Board who places the welfare of the HO's/community above all else....If the Board can't do this or has no time, don't volunteer for this job (to build your ego), they are bring more harm than good.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Sidney,

First of all, do you live in a condo or a planned community? THe rules for satellite dishes are different between the two. Bruce gave you some basic info regarding and the web address of the FCC. I suggest you print out a copy of the FCC decision on satellite dishes and present it to the board. They can adopt a rule regarding placement; however, the FCC rule is law and cannot be violated. As Bruce said, if your rule allows placement in a certain location that location may not be the best place for a particular h/o to receive reception. Also, you cannot fine a member for placing a satellite dish w/o first getting permission from the A/C. The FCC considers this as a delaying tactic and the burden is on the assn to show that a notification process does not violate the rule.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Sidney,

Re: satellite dishes: As Mary said - FCC rules on placement also depend on the type of community.

Also, I overlooked something you posted. It was: "The MC send out letters to the HO's to remove them or show a letter of proof from the satellite company that is the only place to get the best service"

This is backwards according to the FCC rule. The burden of proof is on the Association to prove to the FCC that the HO CAN get adequate service by placing the antenna in the permitted location. The HO can ignore such a letter from your MC - it's worthless. Also, since the dishes have been in that location for a number of years and now you want them moved, the HO can argue that it is an additional expense.

As Mary suggested, I strongly urge you to copy the relevent FCC information and give it to your board members. You not only have to be careful about your restrictions, but about any approval process and any attempts at enforcement. Your board may be opening a can of worms and may end up looking foolish if they are not careful.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
GrahamO: Your subject line brings to the forefront the ongoing problem of misplaced association authority--MC or BOD? We know in theory that authority and responsibility rest with the BOD, and if/when brought into court, it is the BOD who will be asked to provide answers for their action or inaction, not the MC.

However, there is another pervasive problem which Association Boards and Board members seem to perpetuate. And that is ignorance. There have been many postings here of management companies assuming authority over the finances (signing checks and invoices, managing checkbook, bank signature authority, etc.) There have also been concerns over management companies 'hiring' vendors/contractors and/or assuming the role of an umbrella company over the contractors which result in "multi-layered" fees passed onto the association.
Neither of these situations are for the good of the association....

Until Board members accepting a Board position desire to be educated in the
inner workings of an association (either through CAI seminars, state law, or association references) misplaced authority being given to the MC will continue. Remember the old adage, "Buyer Beware".

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