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LaverneB (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
We (board) have a workshp every Thus to catch up on things.Or meet with a homeowner who has a problem.Make decisions,etc The homeowners meeting is held once a month. My, question, at the "workshop" we have a homeowner who comes a nd records the meeting for her husband who is not able to attend.Can someone give me info on if this is legal?Or where to finf it in the Florida statues? I know the Big homeowners meeting can be recorded but i have a problem with the workshops. People come with a problem and don't want it recorded.This is new as all of a sudden this homeowner has become interested of whats going on in the community.(sure).Thanks guys,LaVerne, Greenares Florida
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
as a business, you have a right to restrict cameras and recording devices on your property. When holding a meeting of (most) any kind for your business, the meeting room becomes your business property, at least for the duration of the meeting. thus, you can restrict recording devices, if you have a firm, written statement to the effect, and it's known/posted.

However, I can't say that is the smart thing to do. In general, i am all for transparency, and see nothing wrong with allowing a recording to occur. I think it would improve, eventually, the meetings/process. Besides that, in every state except California, someone can secretly record the meeting anyway, for personal reasons, without too much trouble from the law. It would violate the HOA policy, but honestly, what's the punishment for that?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Laverne,

I'm more interested in the nature of this "workshop" meeting. You say you meet with homeowners who have problems and say you make decisions. These are two things I would think would not be in the realm of a workshop meeting. Meetings with homeowners who have problems might be cause for a closed meeting of the board. Making decisions should also be done in a regular meeting of the board. Have you checked your gov. docs and state law to make certain you aren't violating any laws?

One of the reasons you give for not wanting these meetings recorded is that a homeowner might not want their issue recorded. Another reason why these meetings might be held in a closed session.

I see nothing wrong with a member wanting to record a board meeting; that is any type board meeting -- workshop, regular, special, etc. Even if a member is meeting with the board in a closed session, they should have the right to record that meeting. When the board says "No, you cannot record!", the impression they give is that they're trying to hide something. Check out your state laws, you might find you cannot prevent someone from recording your meetings.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
FL statute 720.303(2)for Homeowners Associations states:
2) BOARD MEETINGS.--

(a) A meeting of the board of directors of an association occurs whenever a quorum of the board gathers to conduct association business. All meetings of the board must be open to all members except for meetings between the board and its attorney with respect to proposed or pending litigation where the contents of the discussion would otherwise be governed by the attorney-client privilege. The provisions of this subsection shall also apply to the meetings of any committee or other similar body when a final decision will be made regarding the expenditure of association funds and to meetings of any body vested with the power to approve or disapprove architectural decisions with respect to a specific parcel of residential property owned by a member of the community.

(b) Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board and to speak on any matter placed on the agenda by petition of the voting interests for at least 3 minutes. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak. Notwithstanding any other law, the requirement that board meetings and committee meetings be open to the members is inapplicable to meetings between the board or a committee and the association's attorney, with respect to meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters.

I'm not sure if you are in a Homeowners Assoc. or Condo Assoc. If it is a Condo you can check FL 718, but I believe it is much the same.
I will send a second reply to copy the statute on videotaping.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
FL statute 720.306 (10)states
(10) RECORDING.--Any parcel owner may tape record or videotape meetings of the board of directors and meetings of the members. The board of directors of the association may adopt reasonable rules governing the taping of meetings of the board and the membership.
You can find the FL statutes by going to the Community Assoc. Network link from this site. Then go to the State Info on the left side and pick the state. Then on the right side you will find the link to all of the statutes. Select either Condo or Homeowners.

Folks from Arizona - we have VERY open laws here in Florida.
Wish Donna would come back........she knows both condo and HOA laws!
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
FL statute 720.306 (10)states
(10) RECORDING.--Any parcel owner may tape record or videotape meetings of the board of directors and meetings of the members. The board of directors of the association may adopt reasonable rules governing the taping of meetings of the board and the membership.
You can find the FL statutes by going to the Community Assoc. Network link from this site. Then go to the State Info on the left side and pick the state. Then on the right side you will find the link to all of the statutes. Select either Condo or Homeowners.

Folks from Arizona - we have VERY open laws here in Florida.
Wish Donna would come back........she knows both condo and HOA laws!
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Well, the original poster called these "Workshops" not a meeting, so i'm not sure any statute applies.

But I agree with Mary: be careful what "decisions" are being made at these workshops.

One thing that could happen is to discuss the items, and wait until the actual Board meeting to make the motion on the issue. No motion/approved decisions are to be made outside of a meeting - which can be taped, at least in Florida.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
This Q & A recently appeared in a FL newspaper........
Q. What constitutes a meeting? Our condominium board has been using task force meetings and roundtable discussions to circumvent the requirement of posting the time and place of such events and keep them closed to the residents. Should they be posted and open to all? It seems just a facade to keep the residents out. — M.I., St. Petersburg

A. This is a subject that is frequently asked. They use the pretence of these closed meetings to avoid the name board meeting by using names like workshop, roundtables, discussion groups or study groups. Condominiums and HOAs have the same answer found in their respective statutes (FS 718.112 and FS 720.303). Anytime a quorum of directors meet to discuss association business it is considered a board meeting and must be noticed, open to the members and minutes taken along with other meeting requirements. Any other name used does not skirt around the statute requirements. Meetings and communications, where less than a quorum of directors are present, do not fall under the open meeting requirements. The key is a quorum of director meeting to discuss association business.
BobT2 (California)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Does the member need to let the parties know that they are going to tape the meeting? How about CA anyone know of this law in CA? I have looked and have not found...yet I shall continue and will update if I find any CA laws about this.
In these situations who and why did people wish to tape was it the board or a member. I think if all meetings were taped the behavior and respect of the members (and some boards) would improve. Can one use these tapes in court?
Again, I am new to this whole association bit and have decided to become proactive rather than a pain in anyone's neck.
Bob
LaverneB (Florida)
Posts: 129
Posted:
Thanks for all the replys on this issue.Welcome Bob to this site. I am sure you will learn alot good and bad things about HOA's Yes, recording is OK for Florida i don't agree with it but all meeting can be recorded.This is one statue i would likie to see updated.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
in every state except California, only one member of a conversation must be aware of the recording of said conversation. In california, both parties must be made aware.

Otherwise, you need a warrant, OR, you need to do it under the auspicies of the Patriot Act, where no warrant is needed.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
In Michigan, the Board would have to vote to give anyone permission to record a Board meeting. The minutes of the meeting suffice as the "official record" of what happened at the meeting. (I am talking about homeowner associations. Someone else can speak on condo board recording)

By the way . . . behavior does NOT get better when meetings are televised or recorded. You should see our televised municipal board and/or committee meetings. It's a disgrace!!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
SB1019 - open meetings -- a bill before the AZ legislature this session would allow a member to tape record any meeting of the assn or the BOD but only if the participants are notified and there is no active interference with the meeting.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Susan, i mostly agree with you... the board would need to officially give permission for open recording in the situation you mentioned (it is their company meeting). If they didn't, the owner could "wear a wire" and do it quietly. The board would have very little legal standing to penalize the person, if caught (ie, not doing what the board asks isn't much of a crime). They could require the offending HO to leave, generally...
JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288
Posted:
Dear Laverne: Sometimes you should not wish for things that you really dont want . The 3 stooges are at it again with 720. They are trying to unite 719 and 720 together go to katzman and kors website and read it if you cannot get it there send me a email they are our lawyers they have started a group to fight these liberals who want to trash the hoas and the condo boards usual junk throw out the bath water with the baby.
They held hearings I went to them and had to sit hru that useless onnibudsman talk about the great job he did. Yuk what a fool. We waited4.5 hours to talk then we were restricted to 2 minutes to speak.

A suggestion start a community web site and put the minutes there and all other minutes there as well as a trouble write in area. I personally commend you that you are willing to work on problems of your members by having weekly meetings I think you guys are awesome. After all the horror stories I heard about the same 3 condo Boards at the Horror Show I just told you about. The state is a joke all they were looking for was horror stories to justify there changing 719 and 720.

Good Luck
[email protected]
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

Do you know of, or are you a member of, Jan Bergeman's FL group, CCFJ?
JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288
Posted:
I know not of that Group but if you would email me the data I would look over there group
[email protected]

Thanks we recently joined a fl group that does lobbying at the state level.

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