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GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
After coming to this forum for advice, I am here again.
Our very young HOA (2002) is still learning, and I think I have come upon an error in procedure. In 2006, our Comunity by 2/3 assenting vote amended one Section of our CCR's which dealt with "Building Requirements." This was to insure that the two unbuilt lots which were still in the development would have specific guidelines to maintain the look and size of the homes already constructed. We got all the necessary signatures and re-registered the amendment with the county as required. That is not the problem.
The questionable procedure came when the BOD using the authority granted in the CCR's under "Further Rules and Regulations" to clarify two other sections. One pertained to trash receptacles and the other pertained to landscaping/lot maintenance. Instead of creating a new document for Rules and Regulations, the BOD registered these two sections with the CCR's when they were re-registered, thinking that it would save time, money, and it was the proper way to create these Rules. I now think that was a booboo. No vote was taken of the Membership, just vote by the BOD under authority of "Further Rules and Regulations." I now am thinking the procedure was flawed, and it should not have been added to the CCR's, but a new document should have been created for Rules/Regulations, which we do not have.
I found under General Provisions, a Section entitled "Severability", which states that "If any provision of this Declaration....is held invalid, the validity of the remainder of the Declaration....shall not be affected thereby and the remainder of the Declaration shall be construed as if such valid part was never included therein."

I believe the sections added as rules and regulations are invalid, but don't know how to proceed. We are having a BOD meeting in two weeks, and I would like to bring this before the BOD to correct.
My question is what do we do now???
1.Do we just leave the CCR's as they have been re-registered but consider those points "invalid?"
2. Do we need to re-register the CCR's taking out the added "rules?"
3. If we need to re-register, does that require a Membership vote to ammend back to what is was before the "rules" were added, which they never voted on?
4. Do we need to create a new document entitled Rules and Regulations and put these two items in that document?
Please help. The BOD thought they were following the right procedure...now I am not so sure.
Thanks,
Gloria

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Gloria, if the two sectons were actually added to the amendments to the CC&Rs then they were improper. If they were simple filed as Rules and Regulations there is no problem. Assuming they were improperly filed, do the owners want these amendments? If so, take a vote and if you get sufficient approval maintain the results in your Association files. Otherwise, the Board can refile and correct the problem. Also an owner can challenge the filing as improper. There may be a time limit for filing a challenge.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Roger,
They were added to the amendments to the CCR's.
If the Board refiles (as you suggest), how is that done? Do we resubmit the CCR's without the added pages that had the rules on them?
I doubt that the owners want these amendments. If they are kept as just Rules and Regulations, am I correct in that future BOD's can reverse them at their will. I believe the owners would welcome that option.
What should our next step be?

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Only file what was approved by the Members. Consider it a "clerical error" and make it right in your re-filing procedure.

Establish Rules and Regulations. There may be guidelines you have to follow to even put those into effect (member notice, approval, etc.) Check your bylaws or state requirements.

Caution your board to know what it is doing before it starts messing around with what is CCR and filed and what is a Rule, passed by the Board, with membership approval. If your Members think the board is trying to put one over on them, this Board may find itself recalled.

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Suan,

Can it be so easily corrected as you suggested?
"Consider it a 'clerical error' and make it right in your re-filing procedure."

Specifically, what do we do? Do we re-submit the CCR's, obmitting the pages that were added at the end with the "rules"? Then the resubmitted documents would have only the Member approved items and not the "clerical error" added rules. Then once re-registered, the newly re-registered documents with the rules deleted would be distributed to all the Members. IMO, it should include a note advising of the "clerical error."

The BOD would definitely need to establish a separate document for Rules and Regulations. Our HOA is in Georgia, and I do not know of any state requirements, but that does not mean that they do not exist.

Any help out there?
We seem to be in a sticky situation, and I am not sure what to do next...

Thanks,
Gloria
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Gloria, I would call your County Clerk and Recorder if you don't know how to properly accomplish the correction.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Gloria,

When the CCRs are amended it is filed as an amendment to the CCRs. All you have to do is file a new amendment deleting the rules that were erroneously included in the other amendment. It's as simple as that! Then the board should prepare a document entitled "Rules and Regulations" adding these new rules. The members should be informed of each new rule or reg adopted by the board. These rules and regs should also be provided to potential new buyers along with the CCRs and any other required docs.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Mary,
When we filed the erroneus amendment, we attached the new pages to the back of the original document, and handed the entire thing in to be registered...so now, we attach the pages to the back omitting the "erroneous" parts and re-register the entire thing again?
Thus, when looking at a copy of our newly re-re-registered CCR's, it would include:
1. the orignal pages (first registered)
2. plus the added "erroneous" pages with the rules (second register)
3. PLUS the added pages without the rules???? (third register)
Does that sound correct?
Also, we are in the process of opting into the Georgia Property Owners Association, and our CCR's will be RE-REGISTERED when that happens. We are
hoping for that to happen within the next month or two.
That brings up the question:
Should we wait to rectify this "rules" mistake at that time and register the whole thing together?
Under one of our Articles/Sections Severability, it states that if one provision of our CCR's is held invalid, the rest of the CCR's is not affected. So our HOA would still be protected by the CCR's while we are trying to fix up this mistake...true??? We would enforce the CCR's as if the erroneous parts were non-existent?
The BOD still needs to set up a document "Rules and Regulations" and add the rules now pulled out of the CCR's.
Any further help or opinions of how to proceed?
Thanks,
Gloria
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
See Roger's post. The clerk will tell you how to submit a revised set of CCRs.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Thanks, Roger and Susan,
I will call the county clerk to get some further procedure. Also, I will place a call to our Attorney to get some guidance from him. Especially since we may not be too far away from re-registering the CCR's so that we can opt into the GAPOA.
Boy, are things ever easy?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Gloria,

No, you would only submit the new amendment. You don't have to re-record the original CCR and any other previously recorded amendments. Good luck on getting advice from the Co. Recorder. Here in AZ (at least Maricopa Co.) they won't give you any advice on how to record a doc -- they consider it legal advice which they are prevented from giving out.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Getting through to the County clerk's office at all has been impossible!
When the documents were re-registered, the County Clerk took the entire original CCR, plus the amendments. I am kind of leery leaving the original CCR in fear that it will get lost. I'll see what our attorney advises us to do...which will now add an attorney fee.
I have notified our BOD by email about this clerical error in procedure. So far, no one has replied.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I find it odd that you would have to re-file the original CC&Rs as well.

Sure, our county clerk will "take" whatever documents you give them.

But when we have amendments, or even the one time we had to re-file amendments because of one entire line being left off (!!) all you do is re-file the correct version. No need to submit all those other pages and docs, etc.

The clerk records the document in a deed book and records the book and page number. Your amendment should already be referring to the DEED BOOK AND PAGE NUMBER of the original CC&Rs anyway, which is how all the changes, amendments, etc, get "tracked."

When someone does a title search, all those documents should be able to be located since they're all cross-referenced. No need to file complete packets each and every time.

But, that's the way it's done here. You still should check with your area. Remember, they'll "take" any and all pages you give them. It's not their job to sort through them and determine what "should" be there and what "shouldn't."

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

You've reaffirmed what I said! And, it's not only NOT their job to sort through everything to determine what should or should not be there, I doubt they would even do it. As I said, here in Maricopa Co, AZ (the largest CO in the state) they WON'T do it. It is considered legal advice to tell you anything regarding how to prepare a document for recording or what should be put into it, etc. I hope Gloria will take our advice; I doubt she'll get anything from the recorders office. And, why pay an attorney?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Well, our county clerk's office will be somewhat helpful.

For example, if you simply want to know the procedure, you can ask and they will tell you.

In fact, I've gone down there many times in person to speak with a clerk or two over different little things. They are often very helpful.

They will show you examples of some of the documents filed by others.

I usually ask to look at examples filed by title attorneys.

These are all public records, after all.

But it's not even worth my while to call them. They are very busy and most of what we want to know we need to eyeball anyway.

It only takes about 10 minutes to get downtown, and parking $$ is nominal.

Last time I was there they showed me how to pull up the neighborhood plat (all 10 sections!) and make copies.

That was cool and only cost $5.00.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
A number of years ago when we had a family trust prepared I needed to record amended deeds. I called with a few minor questions regarding filling out the form and got diddly squat. The mantra, "we can't give legal advice". I wasn't asking for legal advise! So, I just did it the way I thought it should be done and had it recorded. At least the people at your recorder's office appear to be a little more accommodating.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Oh, don't get me wrong, they won't "tell" me anything specific, but they will let me "look at" as many examples as I want!

That's why I say the phone is not the best way to get the info. Some things you just have to eyeball.

Plus, just going down there and having them walk you around is very educational and helps with all sorts of processes we do!
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
The last time the CCR's were to be registered with an approved, voted upon amendment, I brought the pages to be added which I had been told over the phone was all that was needed. I brought me entire file with me...just in case...I like being overly prepared, but that is just me. Upon arrival at the Clerk's office, I handed in the amended pages, but the Clerk said that the entire document was needed...so I handed that over. Therein, lies my trepidation with leaving the original in hands other than my own. I don't know why this was done in this manner, but I know firsthand that it was...and we were charged to re-register each page. The orginal documents have the Deed Book and Page numbers on them which are different from the added amended pages. It was several weeks before the documents arrived back by mail to me. All the while they were gone, I was worrying that the original CCR's would end up lost in space.
Our attorney is on retainer so we are granted a limited amount of "free phone consulation" per month. You just have to talk quickly, have your facts on hand, and pencil at the ready. If I don't have to get go of the original CCR's, I certainly would rather not. Plus why pay to register all those pages again?
Thanks for your help, and I am hoping that the last time was not the correct procedure at the Clerk's office.

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