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LexL (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I am a home owner and we have a big problem with a man made pond in a common area which is owned and maintained by the HOA.

This is a newer development and the developer has turned over control to the homeowners approx. 2 yrs. ago.

Our problem is the shore line of the pond has been eroding severely and we have lost a few feet around the parameter so much that landscaping areas are beginning to be washed away and roots of bushes are exposed now.

Our association does not have sufficient funds to make repairs or a permanent solution. We have a meeting coming up and I've been hearing grumblings of the homeowners who do not live around the pond that they are disinterested and don't want to pay for repairs and a permanent solution even though it is the HOA responsibility to maintain the property and the pond serves a purpose of storm run off for the entire subdivision?

Has anyone had experience dealing with this type of issue?

Is the developer off the hook?

Could there be any codes with construction of this pond?

Can a equity loan be obtained with the property owned by the association?

We have also been loosing board members. Is there any down sides to having a management company run things?

Any ideas on what to do?

Thanks form Atlantis
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I have no answer to your questions, but I do a question of my own for you.

In almost all the newer developments in our area, "man-made ponds" that the developers are installing are actually "retention basins" for rain/sewer runoff, etc.

Ours (and probably about 90% of the others in our area) have inflow -- and outflow.

The reason I bring this up is because you mention there is considerable erosion on the shoreline, which would seem somewhat odd for a closed body of water, like a pond.

It may be that the sewer/water district in your area can/should help with it if it is actually a retention basin. The "pond" may actually be theirs, but the CC&Rs require the HOA to maintain it (in terms of algae, duck weed, landscaping, etc.)

Not long after the turnover in our HOA, I recall the Sewer/Water District coming out to do something with the "pond" (we call ours a "lake," which is still sort of aspirational, if you ask me! We had bigger "ponds" on our farm when I was growing up!)

But they actually ended up doing some sort of concrete/rock slope on one end of the "lake" nearest one of the inflows. I don't know the details because the guy who worked with them isn't in our subdivision anymore. I'll check to see if there are any notes anywhere.

I do know this, though, we didn't have to pay for it.

Oh, I recall another time that some kids had pulled out some of the metal grates and threw them into the "lake." Our sewer district came out to remove them and replace them with no fee.

We, however, did have to pay for some mole issues in the area around that time.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michele,
Sounds like good information to me Michele.

I would add that your turn over documents be combed for any specific information and sure the land is seperate and has a deed. You may be able to find out something about the pond at your city or county offices, just root around and build a file and see what you end up with.
I also am curious as to how erosion can be happening in a closed body of water unless it is a wind effect and if that is the case you may be able to plant or erect some kind of wind protection.

As far as your regime concenus is concerned and you all are paying the same fees it is always going to be difficult to get the entire regime to want to pay for maintenance of this pond. You may want to consider a prorated additional fee for those that have "prime" lots around the water.
You should be able to find out property values around this pond and see if they were higher than the normal or average property of the rest of the HOA. I doubt if you can solve this problem, unless the board is motivated to research the whole history and establish a proportional fees schedule and this will require at least a majority vote of all owners. It is time for some creative thinking on the Boards part to make the problem better.

Members drop off and out of most boards because there is no leadership or direction on the board. Apathy is a big factor but not the root cause cause of the problem, mostly actions by people create the condition and actions by people will solve the problem, find the right buttons to push.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

You've brought up the age-old mantra: "I don't use the amenity, why should I have to pay for it?" I know a pond (or lake) that only some h/o's have access to is much different than a community swimming pool, but the premise is the same. Whatever the "amenity" all lot owners share in the upkeep expense. My community is full of lakes but my home doesn't border on one. However, the fact that our community has lakes is attractive to potential homebuyers. Same as the private golf course which runs through the community. And regarding the lakes in my community, many of the h/o's bordering the lakes have paddle boats, but no one is allowed to swim or fish (they are stocked) in the lakes. If this is the case with these ponds all the more reason why everyone should share in the upkeep. If those bordering on the pond can't use it for anything, why should they alone pay for the upkeep?
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Lex:

Back to your original question...I don't think your developer is off the hook. We had a neighborhood near ours that had issues with erosion in their lake and went back to the developer. I don't know all the gory details but I do know the developer kicked in a lot of money to get it fixed.
DanielL3 (Louisiana)
Posts: 65
Posted:
Lex,
I live in a 55+ community which has water retention ponds (we call them lakes also) which collects the rain water from the golf courses. Our HOA had three of these ponds conveyed by the developer. No problem since we do not experience any erosion. Boats of any kind are not allowed in the ponds, but
fishing is allowed.
The problem the HOA was confronted with was the construction of homes
backing the ponds that are not part of our 55+ community. The developer was
notified of the dilemma of our HOA was responsible for the pond and he allowed
use of the pond (fishing)as an amenity for these residents. Our concern was
the possibility of an accident occurring in our pond and being held liable.
As of now the situation remains.
Some of our residents, whose property abuts the ponds, have installed bulkheads, not because of erosion, but the land sloped to the water's edge
and the bulkhead provided a means of leveling the back yard.
The HOA maintains the ponds but not the property on the shoreline.
It appears to me you have to take care of the problem yourself, especially
if the HOA does not have the funds to repair. Is there a reserve fund?
LexL (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks guys we call it a lake too
It is definitely storm run off for the entire subdivision.

It is large with no outlet. It is probably 6+ ac. and we do get wind blowing across causing white caps (KOWAGUNGA )

I am not on the board but I thought maybe an assessment for the repairs equally spread and those who refuse to pay would be charged interest and when they finally pay the interest earned would be divided among to the original group how pitched in.

We have a bike path and large burm along the street of an entrance very long and landscaped. All three of these areas are property of the HOA and not the village.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Don't be surprised if it doesn't have an outflow.

It would not necessarily be noticeable from looking at it. Ours is at the bottom on the opposite side as the inflows and empties below grade into an adjacent larger storm drain (which is like a mini-river sometimes).

But regardless of how many people "officially" "use" the lake as an amenity, it is deeded jointly to all homeowners and they are all equally responsible for it.

It's not something that they can either "opt out" of nor can the board "opt them out" of responsibility for it.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Mary Ann,
Lived in HOA with lake and condos with apportioned fees. Theonly point IU am trying to make if the developer advertized some lots (say on the lake) and included the lake as part of the value of the lot, then there could be some who might say the lakes belong to those people.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Lex,

I would bet that your County Environmental or land Developement will want to be involved in this. This is way too soon to be having so many difficulties so I would start with your County first. Usually the Developer also has a certain Bond or Warranty on infrastructure but because you are interconnected with an outflow, there is outside monitoring of the water.
LexL (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 04/23/2008 5:01 PM
Mary Ann,
Lived in HOA with lake and condos with apportioned fees. Theonly point IU am trying to make if the developer advertized some lots (say on the lake) and included the lake as part of the value of the lot, then there could be some who might say the lakes belong to those people.

When we were looking for lots we did notice in a different subdivision the property line in the back did go under water around a lake. Now I know why.
LexL (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanielL3 on 04/23/2008 10:40 AM
Is there a reserve fund?

I believe our reserve is gone dealing with landscaping issues. I think we need to fix the problem ourselves now and try to work it out with developer/village/county after. Anyone know about the possibility of obtaining an equity loan(there is a tax bill for HOA's properties) or would we have to get a general loan?
LexL (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
[IMG]http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj31/itsiceman/DSC00757.jpg[/IMG]
surfs up today
JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288
Posted:
Find out if your area has a Water Management District. In Florida they own all waterways,ponds,lakes and interconnected waterways. They are totally responsible to fix and repair as well as maintain them. The only catch is what type of written agreement the developer made with the city and county folks while doing his PUD Plan. Which is required in every city and county in America.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

John,
You are partly right in your statement about the Water Management Districts do monitor and control how the systems work BUT, each developement that has any part of the systems, is totally responsible for all infrastructures and maintenances of the systems. Sorry, we could have saved ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars if SFWMD had paid the bill.

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