Liens

Started by AnitaT • 18 replies • 1466 views

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AnitaT (Arizona)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Dues have not been paid to our Homeowners Association. Must we hire an attorney in order to place a lien?
Where do we find the necessary steps to file a lien. Thank you

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

No. An attorney is needed only when you need to go to court. Use the search tab to view an example lien form and procedures for filing.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Anita:

Contact the register of deeds in your county and ask the procedure. That is what we did, it is fairly simple where we live, may be different where you are.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Anita - read our state statutes. There is an automatic lien on unpaid assessments in Arizona. However, you can only foreclose when the unpaid amount goes over $1,200 or on any amount delinquent over one year. Why get an attorney involved before you have to? Why hasn't your management company told you this?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Anita,

Harold asks why get an attorney involved b/4 one is needed. Simple reason is because an attorney is required to record a lien unless a certified legal document preparer is hired to perform this duty. Here's an excerpt defining this program:

"LEGAL DOCUMENT PREPARER PROGRAM

Effective July 1, 2003, all individuals and businesses preparing legal documents without the supervision of an attorney in good standing with the State Bar of Arizona, must be certified pursuant to Rule 31, and Arizona Codes of Judicial Administration § 7-208 and § 7-201. Legal Document Preparer Program certifies non-attorney legal document preparers in Arizona who provide document preparation assistance and services to individuals and entities not represented by an attorney. Legal Document Preparers may provide general legal information but may not give legal advice."

More info can be found on the website: www.supreme.state.az.us/cld/ldp.htm

FYI. . . The automatic lien statute Harold refers to is: for condos - ARS 33-1256 and for planned communities - ARS 33-1807.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Mary, Mary - This is getting weary. I just got off the phone with Cathy L. at the Maricopa County Recorder's Office. You absolutely do not have to have an attorney file a lien.
I'm not sure tho why you are fiddling around in the Supreme Court for this information.

Harold, Harold, Harold - Yes, YOU are getting weary. I just got off the phone with Mike at the Recorder's Office. He verified that anyone can bring in a document to be recorded. I asked him about the Legal Document Preparer requirement and he said he didn't know anything about it. He stated their mission is to record anything anyone brings in. They don't care about statutes, Supreme Court rules, etc. So, Harold, you can do it the right way or you can do it your way. I'm not "fiddling" around in the Supreme Court looking for answers; I only reported their rule change.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

So what is your problem? You flat a$$ gave Anita the wrong information: "Simple reason is because an attorney is REQUIRED to record a lien unless a certified legal document preparer is hired to perform this duty." (My emphasis.) That is not correct- not even the legal document preparer part - as you found out. Now you are back pedaling again clinging desperately to your "right way." The only "right way" is when you follow the Recorder's requirements. Your "right way" doesn't make your lien any better or more enforceable; it only adds to the full employment act of the Esquires.
Many, many posters here recommend filing your own liens. Do a search. So it appears to be the same in other states.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Harold,

You know I'm getting sick and tired of your attitude. Others here have noticed your hostility toward me and it's getting old with them and with me. I don't know who you are, but if you have a beef with me contact me privately and let's get it out in the open.

Regarding this thread: I'm not backpeddling and I DID NOT give out incorrect info. Check out the website I posted and you can read the rule for yourself. If you don't think the rules of the Supreme Court of AZ should be followed, so be it.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Sigh. "the rules of the Supreme Court of AZ should be followed, so be it." Yes indeed: by those practicing before a court. The rules of the supreme court are just that - rules governing practice and procedures in COURT. They are not statutes. (Apparently you think they are.) They are not even your favorite Attorney General opinions. They are rules to follow when in court. Your quote from the Supreme Court rules doesn't even make reference to filing a lien. It applies to documents submitted to the court.
I'm still curious why you are dabbling in court rules. They have absolutely no application to we peasants out here.
When you stop giving misleading information to posters, I will happily leave you alone.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Harold:

Honest to god, if you can't handle reading Mary's posts without being incited to such venomous tirades, you might want to make it a point to avoid responding to her.

I'm a fairly blunt poster myself, but your level of hostility directed to this one poster, REGARDLESS of what or how she posts, is starting to get ridiculous and, quite frankly, appears to be bordering on harassment.

I had no idea that anyone mentioning the supreme court demeans us as peasantry. Thanks for pointing that out.

And regarding misleading information to posters, this site is rife with all sorts of information with serious gaps. Even our experts can misapply or misinterpret a posting. Yet if Mary does it, she's somehow purposefully being malicious.

If she's quoting something out of context, or applies something that doesn't fit, then here's some clue for you to help you bring your blood pressure down:

"General Legal Notice: The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com. Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel. "

(it's displayed on the bottom of every forum page)

Every poster on here knows to take ANY advice imparted with a due grain of salt. Or they should know that.

If they don't and try to act on the information and it is wrong, I'm quite sure they'll realize that before any harm is done. After all, she's not trying to sell anyone "spiked" Kool-Aide, as far as I can tell.

I have yet to read anything imparted that is actionable anyway. It all appears to me to be her opinion and based on her interpretation of things she reads.

I could be wrong.

But it's no different than any other's posting and replies to other people. Sometimes it hits the mark; sometimes it misses. But we're all big kids. If she's going to feed us garbage, we'll figure it out eventually.

Seriously, your attempts to save us all from the "alleged" Typhoid Mary is getting absurd.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Double sigh. No where did I state this was enacted into law by statute. No where does is say "practicing before a court". No where does it say doucments only submitted to the court. It says: "Legal document preparer means an individual or business entity certified to provide legal documents without the supervision of an attorney for an entity or a member of the public who is engaging in self-representation in any legal matter." Any legal matter is not necessarily a court case. IMO, a legal matter can be filing a lien! Further, I have a document which states: "The new rules will function as follows: 1. "Practices of Law" is newly defined. The new potentially problematic provisions for management companies include: preparing any document in any medium intended to affect or secure legal rights for a specific person or entity (this could include, for example, the preparation by the namager or management company of CC&R amendments and the recording of notices of lien)."

Now, Harold, I've stated my opinion and provided documentation to support it. I haven't seen any documentation to support your opinion, but, of course you are entitled to it. The recorder's office doesn't give a rap whether the document you present has been prepared legally or not, they will record anything you give them. So, your phone call there isn't proof of anything. Show me proof that I'm wrong and I won't be afraid to admit to interpreting this incorrectly. Can you do the same? Funny, but I think not!

Goodbye Harold, you're getting quite tiring and not worth my time. Say anything about me or my opinions and it's just like water rolling off a duck's back. I could care what you think of me and my opinions but you're certainly making a name for yourself here by constantly wanting to pick apart everything I say.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Michele,

Again thank you! Sure don't know what Harold's problem is. Perhaps its men's PMS!! LOL

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Mary - just google for yourself "rules of court" which is your "authority". Or ask any attorney to explain "rules of court" to you.

Rules of Court
The rules regulating practice and procedure before the various courts. In most jurisdictions, these rules are issued by the individual courts or by the highest court in that jurisdiction.

That is my "authority." What part of "practice and procedure before the various courts" don't you understand? The courts make rules for all to follow when appearing before them. Nothing more. Nothing less. Their rules don't apply anywhere else but in their court. So your using court rules as your authority to require an attorney to file liens is not correct.
You now admit the Recorder doesn't require an attorney to fle a lien, when your original statement was that an attorney was "required" to file a lien. So why do you cling to your misleading position?

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Harold while I am not an attorney nor do I live in AZ but type "Legal Document Preparer -Arizona" into a search engine and read Rule 31 yourself at least from a cursory glance Mary is correct in this matter.

Effective July 1, 2003, all individuals and businesses preparing legal documents without the supervision of an attorney in good standing with the State Bar of Arizona, must be certified pursuant to Rule 31, and Arizona Codes of Judicial Administration § 7-208 and § 7-201. Legal Document Preparer Program certifies non-attorney legal document preparers in Arizona who provide document preparation assistance and services to individuals and entities not represented by an attorney. Legal Document Preparers may provide general legal information but may not give legal advice.

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof." --John Kenneth Galbraith

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Harold,

What I said about the Recorder is that they don't care who brings in a document to be recorded and they don't care how the document is prepared, their only job is to record that document. I never said the recorder doesn't require an attorney to prepare the document. You are the one who called the recorder to find out if I was right or wrong. You are the one who used the recorder as the authority which is stupid.

You're bent on twisting my remarks and, IMO, you still have not provided any concrete evidence that you're right and I'm wrong. Why don't you just give it a rest?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Thank you, Glen! :-) I had already posted that rule for Harold, but I don't think Harold is really looking for the truth as much as he's just looking for something to make it "appear" that I'm wrong.

"There are few people who are more often in the wrong than those who cannot endure to be so." Francois de la Rochefoucauld

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Stupid? You are using a court rule as authority for something a court rule has no jurisdiction over.
Stupid? You are claiming a lawyer is needed to file a lien when that simply is not correct.
And why wouldn't the Recorder be an authority? That's where you said an attorney has to file a lien, and they have told both you and me that that is not correct.
Glen - I assume your courts in Ohio have rules too. They are not laws. They are simply the way courts require things be done in their court. Check it out.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Here is my question....why is she not allowed to give her opinion and not personally be attacked. You both have stated your opinions, right or wrong they are your opinions and we all are entitled to them without having to face the type of personal attacks that are going on. Harold you have made your point, move on.

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