BobT2
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
If a board is going to change a rule and the CA law says it must give the members 30 days notice does that mean owners must have received notice within the 30 days or it must be sent out within 30 days?
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Rule Change
Started by BobT2 ⢠10 replies ⢠1527 views
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JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 874
Posts: 874
Posted:
Here's what I found:
"Notice of Proposed Change. At least 30 days before a vote on adopting or amending an operating rule, the board must mail a copy of the proposed change to the members, along with an explanation of their purpose and effect.
Adoption in Open Meeting. After the 30-day period, the board may adopt the rules at a duly noticed open meeting of the board, taking into consideration of any comments made by association members. Civil Code §1357.130
Notice of Adoption. Within 15 days of voting on the rules, the board must notify the membership of the results of the vote. Civil Code §1357.130
Member Veto of Rule Change. Within 30 days of this notification, at least 5% of the members can request a special meeting to reverse the board vote. The board must give 10 to 90 daysâ notice of a special meeting, at which a majority of a quorum can reverse the boardâs decision. The board must notify the members of the results of this vote within 15 days. If an operating rule is reversed, it cannot be re-adopted by the board for at least one year. However, the board may vote on other "operating rules" covering the same subject. Civil Code §1357.140
Emergency Rule Change. If the board determines that an immediate rule change is required to address an imminent threat to public health or safety, or an imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association, it may make an emergency rule change; and no notice is required. An emergency rule change is effective for 120 days. Civil Code §1357.130(d)"
It looks like 30 days notice before voting on it. Unless challenged, it can probably go into affect immediately after the board notifies the owners of the vote
Joe
"Notice of Proposed Change. At least 30 days before a vote on adopting or amending an operating rule, the board must mail a copy of the proposed change to the members, along with an explanation of their purpose and effect.
Adoption in Open Meeting. After the 30-day period, the board may adopt the rules at a duly noticed open meeting of the board, taking into consideration of any comments made by association members. Civil Code §1357.130
Notice of Adoption. Within 15 days of voting on the rules, the board must notify the membership of the results of the vote. Civil Code §1357.130
Member Veto of Rule Change. Within 30 days of this notification, at least 5% of the members can request a special meeting to reverse the board vote. The board must give 10 to 90 daysâ notice of a special meeting, at which a majority of a quorum can reverse the boardâs decision. The board must notify the members of the results of this vote within 15 days. If an operating rule is reversed, it cannot be re-adopted by the board for at least one year. However, the board may vote on other "operating rules" covering the same subject. Civil Code §1357.140
Emergency Rule Change. If the board determines that an immediate rule change is required to address an imminent threat to public health or safety, or an imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association, it may make an emergency rule change; and no notice is required. An emergency rule change is effective for 120 days. Civil Code §1357.130(d)"
It looks like 30 days notice before voting on it. Unless challenged, it can probably go into affect immediately after the board notifies the owners of the vote
Joe
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TomK2
Posts: 38
Posts: 38
Posted:
BobT2: Read your docs. They will tell you about the time needed to notify the owners. I think you will find that it is a thirty day notice. The Docs will also tell you that a majority of the owners need to vote on a change in yje bylaws, most cases its 662/3 % of the ellgible voters need to vote yes before the change can becaome a law. I think you will find that the BOARD alone can not pass an amendment. CHECK OUR DOCs THEY WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KOW! Tomk2
SusanW1
Posts: 5,197
Posts: 5,197
Posted:
Bob - you used the term "rule" - that is not the same as an amendment.
What did you mean? What is your definition of the word "rule."?
What did you mean? What is your definition of the word "rule."?
BobT2
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
We got a letter in the mail that said the board is planning on changing the rules and regulation to include the following.... the following was 4 pages on parking of vehicles in driveways.
I called the management company and was told that the board could change the rules if they wanted. I looked at the Davis Sterling code and it says the board needs to have a purpose and effect of the change so I am once again confused and trying to figure this out. I am reading over my docs but have not found much yet
I called the management company and was told that the board could change the rules if they wanted. I looked at the Davis Sterling code and it says the board needs to have a purpose and effect of the change so I am once again confused and trying to figure this out. I am reading over my docs but have not found much yet
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posts: 5,596
Posted:
Bob,
Rules and Regulations are the Board's authority to uncomplicate the wording in the Protective Covenants and Bylaws. It is strictly at the Boards discression to do this. The R.& R's are to work from those Covs and Bylaws, to clarify and tweek them concerning behavior an allowances from the membership. Most States require prior notice to the members that R. and R's will be added or changed but there is no vote from the membership for their acceptance.
SusanW1
Posts: 5,197
Posts: 5,197
Posted:
UNLESS noted in your bylaws or state laws, Rules and Regulations can be established by the Board by a majority vote (of the Board). They tend to be flexible, since they usually cover issues that can change over the years (like the parking, landscape, etc.) due to a variety of issues.
Attend the board meeting where the motion will be made, and, if members are allowed input at Board meetings at "discussion" time of the vote, let your concerns be known.
Attend the board meeting where the motion will be made, and, if members are allowed input at Board meetings at "discussion" time of the vote, let your concerns be known.
MaryA1
Posts: 6,993
Posts: 6,993
Posted:
Bob,
Please read Joseph's response posted above. He has quoted the applicable statute from the Davis Sterling Act which says in part: "At least 30 days before a vote on adopting or amending an operating rule, the board must mail a copy of the proposed change to the members, along with an explanation of their purpose and effect." Note that the statute explicitly refers to an "operating rule". The statute gives you at least 30 days to review the new rule or rule change and decide whether or not you agree with it. I would think, that in the interim you could talk to all your neighbors and lobby for support or defeat. I've always been of the opinion that the members should vote on any proposed rule by the board. So, this really sounds great to me!
Please read Joseph's response posted above. He has quoted the applicable statute from the Davis Sterling Act which says in part: "At least 30 days before a vote on adopting or amending an operating rule, the board must mail a copy of the proposed change to the members, along with an explanation of their purpose and effect." Note that the statute explicitly refers to an "operating rule". The statute gives you at least 30 days to review the new rule or rule change and decide whether or not you agree with it. I would think, that in the interim you could talk to all your neighbors and lobby for support or defeat. I've always been of the opinion that the members should vote on any proposed rule by the board. So, this really sounds great to me!
KathyS
Posts: 137
Posts: 137
Posted:
"Member Veto of Rule Change. Within 30 days of this notification, at least 5% of the members can request a special meeting to reverse the board vote. The board must give 10 to 90 daysâ notice of a special meeting, at which a majority of a quorum can reverse the boardâs decision. The board must notify the members of the results of this vote within 15 days. If an operating rule is reversed, it cannot be re-adopted by the board for at least one year."
This has to be done by a petition. Also, check your governing documents on when, where and how the votes will be counted. In our association it is ONLY the members at the special meeting that can vote. Nothing is sent out to the members.
This has to be done by a petition. Also, check your governing documents on when, where and how the votes will be counted. In our association it is ONLY the members at the special meeting that can vote. Nothing is sent out to the members.
BobT2
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
I have taken in all this information and this is what I have found out. In December of last year the board sent out an amendment to change the parking in our amendments. It did not pass. The board was going to revote to try and make it pass again in Feb. In an email from the management company to the board it states
"why try another vote to change an amendment when the board can change the Rules without any homeowner approval" The proposed change is the exact wording as the amendment that did not pass except the amendment was changed to rule change. I have seen all this from a board member along with several other emails stating that stated the cost of this change (over $5,000) is all one homeowners fault. I could go on and on. This board member told me about this site and she has many posts on this site in regards to this issue. So there is talk about a recall among the homeowners that I have talked to. I must admit that I am, or was, one of those silent homeowners that thought cleaning up trash or picking a weed here and there was enough. Things are changing and it is time to take a more active role. Thanks for everyones opinion I have learned tons from this and will continue to educate myself and ways to handle situations in the future.
"why try another vote to change an amendment when the board can change the Rules without any homeowner approval" The proposed change is the exact wording as the amendment that did not pass except the amendment was changed to rule change. I have seen all this from a board member along with several other emails stating that stated the cost of this change (over $5,000) is all one homeowners fault. I could go on and on. This board member told me about this site and she has many posts on this site in regards to this issue. So there is talk about a recall among the homeowners that I have talked to. I must admit that I am, or was, one of those silent homeowners that thought cleaning up trash or picking a weed here and there was enough. Things are changing and it is time to take a more active role. Thanks for everyones opinion I have learned tons from this and will continue to educate myself and ways to handle situations in the future.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 874
Posts: 874
Posted:
Bob,
one additional thing to be aware of is if the proposed rule change is, in fact, an "operating rule"
"Operating Rules" are defined as any regulation adopted by the board of directors that applies to the management and operation of the association or the conduct of its business and affairs. Civil Code §1357.100 This includes pets, parking, use of the common areas, member discipline, architectural standards, election procedures, etc.
Excluded are decisions relating to common area maintenance, a specific matter (as opposed to a general policy), assessment amounts, a nondiscretionary rule change required by law, or a rule that repeats existing law or the Associationâs Bylaws, CC&Rs or Articles of Incorporation. Civil Code §1357.120
Just more thing to consider.
Unfortunately, we can no longer simply refer to our documents as more and more state actions are superseding the CC&R's. They're still the place to start, but it's only a start.
Joe
one additional thing to be aware of is if the proposed rule change is, in fact, an "operating rule"
"Operating Rules" are defined as any regulation adopted by the board of directors that applies to the management and operation of the association or the conduct of its business and affairs. Civil Code §1357.100 This includes pets, parking, use of the common areas, member discipline, architectural standards, election procedures, etc.
Excluded are decisions relating to common area maintenance, a specific matter (as opposed to a general policy), assessment amounts, a nondiscretionary rule change required by law, or a rule that repeats existing law or the Associationâs Bylaws, CC&Rs or Articles of Incorporation. Civil Code §1357.120
Just more thing to consider.
Unfortunately, we can no longer simply refer to our documents as more and more state actions are superseding the CC&R's. They're still the place to start, but it's only a start.
Joe
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