BoD Policies & Procedures ... Enforceable?

Are the BoD's Policies and Procedures enforceable? Are they worth the paper they are written on? The reason they were written was for the board president to control 2 of the board members he did not like.

I would like your opinion(s) on this matter! Thanks.

How large is the board? If only three members, how on earth can one person dominate two? They could even remove him as president - make him secretary!

Lori,

Who "passed" the policies and procedures, the board? or the president?

Do the policies and procedures conflict with the statutes, CCRs or the bylaws? If they do, they are not enforceable.

Also, are they ADMINISTRATIVE procedures? Administrative procedures have a lower precedence than parliamentary procedures.

Finally, who enforces policies and procedures? Not the president. If the policies are procedures have been passed by the board, then they must be enforced by the board. If the policies and procedures were "passed" by one person (any one person, including the president), then they don't exist and cannot be enforced.

Each board member is an equal. The president has no authority over the board.

Roger,

I understood that Lori was referring to "policies and procedures" imposed on the board, not "rules and regulations" imposed on association members. I think you are referring to the latter. They would not be the same thing.

Lori, which is it?

Rules and Regs are always adopted by the BOD BUT they absolutely MUST NOT conflict with the CC&Rs. Do something about that as a smart member of the association. Under Florida law, Rules and Regs must be presented to the general membership 14 days prior to a meeting of the membership at which time, the Board is to approve them. The membership is given time by a prior written request, to address the Board with their statements. The key here is that the members have the R.and R's. 14 days prior.

We had a Master President who was adament that all garage doors must be closed at all times except for ingress and egress even after the Documents Committee (I am Chair) told her that we refused to add this because it was unworkable and unenforceable. Well, 30 members later, who had requested their 3 minutes of "air time", convinced her that she would never get this enforced. The masses told her that ALL of the garage doors would remain open if this was passed. It was removed. YEA! So even if the Board has written something so blatantly dumb, the membership can do something about it.

Mary, that would make sense.

Our board is just getting ready to embark on drafting some Rules and Regulations (if anyone has some they could provide for us so that we can have some baselines, that would be great).

Our attorney has recommended that after we draft them that we call a meeting and have the membership "ratify" them.

That is not NECESSARY by either our CC&Rs or Bylaws, or by our state laws or local ordinances, but he suggested that it is easier to enforce them later on down the road with that extra step added in.

That way we can have a paper trail that all members were allowed access to and input regarding the R&Rs and they were "ratified" by the membership.

Mary - can you please explain and cite your reference for this statement? "...rules since they carry the same weight as the CCRs once they're adopted by the board."

So Mary, now it is just your opinion? It is also just my opinion that rules & regulations would be viewed differently by a court than they would view the CC&Rs. R&Rs are probably more prone to be viewed by a court under a "reasonableness" application than would the CC&Rs. So hardly equal weight.
Oh, and it is not just my opinion. Here's a quote from Roger earlier in another thread: "09/04/2007 8:54 AM Quote Reply: Meanwhile, restrictions in the CC&Rs carry much more weight in court than if they are in the R&Rs." So maybe Roger knows that to be a fact?

Who is Roger? See above for his two posts on this thread alone. You'll notice he has 3,467 posts on HOATalk and I personally respect his knowledge and opinions.
The simple fact is that rules and regulations are not in the same hierarchy as CC&Rs. Therefore are not and cannot be the same "weight." Of course, that is just my opinion.

Our by-laws and CCRs do not mention policy and procedures for the board. The president made policies and procedures that only affected the board members he didn't like. Ridiculous policy and procedures. I have not checked statutes in Indiana yet.

They are administrative procedures on running the HOA amongst the board. The board passed the policies. The board has not made these policy and procedures available to the membership. They like to do things in secret. I've called them on the carpet on numerous issues and they don't like it. They have the mentality "that's the way we have always done it".

We have 3 board members who are spiteful, hateful, narrow-minded, self-absorbed and bitter. Our board has 5 members. We have a trifecta that runs our board. The voice of the other 2 members doesn't matter if they don't go along.

Lori,
"that's the way we have always done it" has got to be the worst excuse in the world. It's the one you use when you're too unimaginative to come up with something better. If we all lived by that, the world would still be flat, the sun and stars would still revolve around the earth, we'd all be traveling by horseback, and on and on.

Unfortunately, when it's 3 them vs. 2 you, there's not much you can do.

The fact that the CCRs give the board the authority to pass rules, IMO, makes those rules enforceable just as the CCRs are enforceable. However, IMO, it all depends upon the rule as to whether or not it might have the same enforeceability as a CCR restriction. For example, the Christmas lights color -- I doubt that rule would hold up in court.

Harold, note I prefaced my remarks with "IMO" - in my opinion!!

One more thing:

If a board is sloppy in how it develops, words, communicates or enforces its Rules & Regulations, that same board is probably just as sloppy in how it amends, communicates or enforces its CC&Rs.

In cases like that I can most definitely see that a court might not uphold the R&Rs -- or even the CC&Rs, depending on just how sloppy the board is.

Conversely, if a board is transparent, fair and communicative in how it develops, words, communicates or enforces its Rules & Regulations, just as diligent as how it amends, communicates or enforces its CC&Rs, then the R&Rs, if challenged, or when challenged, will be held up just as legitimately by courts as the CC&Rs would be IF THE CC&RS GIVE THE BOARD THE ABILITY TO DRAFT AND ENFORCE R&Rs.

It's just ludicrous to imply that they wouldn't JUST because they are Rules & Regulations, and JUST because some sloppy boards don't handle them properly.

We have many HOAs who have had successful challenges to their R&Rs, to the extent of a court challenge, and I don't know of one that has had them found wanting.

The subdivision next to us had a homeowner challenge the board's R&Rs on security doors. She lost. She had to remove the security door and replace it with a different type. One that was in accordance with her HOAs Rules and Regulations (because her CC&Rs didn't address security doors specifically). The same thing happened with another homeowner who installed a brick casement around his mailbox. His Rules & Regulations dealt with mailbox specifics, his CC&Rs did not. Yet, the judge upheld the board's ability to enforce the mailbox R&Rs.

IF that HOA in the newspaper article had done a proper job of how it developed and/or communicated and enforced their R&Rs re: Christmas Lights, then the residents might still complain, but they would still have to follow the Rules & Regulations, just as they would have to follow the CC&Rs that speak to Rules & Regulations.

Otherwise, what's the point in a set of Deed Conditions, Covenants & Restrictions ever placing a Rules & Regulations stipulation in it?!

So. Let's just disagree. You say potato -- I'll say orange. We'll both remain happy.