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GeoffT2 (Illinois)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Hello, I'm on the Board of my Association and have a sticky situation. It is an urban condo building -- one building with a courtyard which everyone's balconies face. Littered on the ground by 3 of the balconies are dozens of cigarette butts (only recently noticed because the snow finally melted). We strongly suspect (but have no proof) we know which of the three units is responsible -- one is a problem owner who we've had some other problems with (allowing her dog to do its business in the courtyard, and not picking up, etc.) One of the other three is a non-smoker, and the other owner swears up and down that the littering is not her doing, and we're inclined to believe her.

I'm wondering if, without proof -- except through excluding other possible sources -- we could justifiably assess a fine to the offending unit, as per our rules & regulations. Any other thoughts on how to approach this situation are welcome (note that no discussions/letters have worked in the past regarding other issuesn-- as I said, we regularly experience problems with this owner.)
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
there's always DNA

or, perhaps lipstick.. one smoker has it, uses it, etc. and it's on the butts.

Or, perhaps you can match brands.

There's always cameras (except in California) to catch the smoker in the act.

Last resort, simply go to the one you believe, and have her refrain from throwing any butts out the balcony for one week. If butts appear, and she signs an affadavit that they aren't hers... (of course, she can sign an affadavit anyway, about the current butts).

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Geoff,

Perhaps it isn't any of the three unit owners! Perhaps a group of teens are loitering there in the evening and dropping their butts. Without proof of who the offender is you cannot take any action. Have the landscaper pick up the butts and don't waste any more time trying to second guess who the culprit might be. Just like dog doo, if you don't see who's dog did it you can't just fine every dog owner!
GeoffT2 (Illinois)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Based on where it's at, it pretty much has to be one of the three. This is in a gated courtyard area with limited access. There are no teens or anyone else in the courtyard who aren't supposed to be there.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Geoff,

Even so, you must have proof. You cannot issue violation notices without absolute proof of who the violator is. If it's that important of an issue, perhaps you can get a crew together to stake out the area at night. We did that in my former assn when the homes and vehicles were being bombarded by eggs late at night. A group of 4 men stationed themselves in the bushes at the park near the front entrance and several other men were set up in a dark area near the back entrance to the s/d. About 2 am a young girl came jogging down the street. As she went by the park she spied one of the guys in the bushes and screamed. My husband came into the light and said to her, "Don't be afraid, we won't hurt you." At this, she screamed again and took off running straight to the area where the other men were. By this time they were in the street because they heard the commotion. When she saw them she screamed again and ran out the back entrance. They didn't catch any eggers that night but they scared the dickens out of the poor young girl. I doubt she went jogging at 2 a.m. any more, at least not through our s/d!!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I lurv the stories on this site!

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
GeoffT2: I would suggest the Board issue a notice ("Notice Against Littering")
to all Association residents stating that the Board will begin to "assess a fine to the offending unit, as per our rules & regulations". Include the
text from your docs which they are violating (don't know what text would refer to cigarette littering, but there might be something about maintaining the integrity of the community...). Treat the situation as it pertains to ALL members of the Association complying to the document restrictions. Further, if you can get anyone 'caught in the act', a photograph is always proof which cannot be denied.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
GeoffT2 - How are the balconies (where the cigarette butts are tossed) defined in your governing documents? Are they defined as limited common elements. Meaning the owners are responsible for the general sweeping cleaning of the balconies but the actual replacement cost of the balconies is funded by the Association reserves. If so, the owners themselves are responsible for the general cleaning of the balconies. Oversight by the Board to respond to the unsightliness is what I'm trying to get you to look into.

Unfortunately, by your post, it seems that at least one owner isn't doing the littering. Not surprising that another owner would flick their cigarette butt on someone else's' area/limited common element. Smoking is such a nasty addiction. Those who've succumbed, more often than not have little regard for themselves, let alone their fellow neighbor. Miserable is as miserable does.
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeraldT4 on 04/08/2008 7:16 PM
GeoffT2 -

Those who've succumbed, more often than not have little regard for themselves, let alone their fellow neighbor. Miserable is as miserable does.

That statement is not true. Get off your soapbox!
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanM on 04/10/2008 6:28 AM
Posted By GeraldT4 on 04/08/2008 7:16 PM
GeoffT2 -

Those who've succumbed, more often than not have little regard for themselves, let alone their fellow neighbor. Miserable is as miserable does.


That statement is not true. Get off your soapbox!

Gerald made two statements there. Please clarify which one you are saying is not true.

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