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NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Board members email each other all the time. One of ours has personal issues with me and another individual on the board. Mine is fairly recent, and the other individual problem was months ago.

When we sent out emails and ask opinions or share information on agenda items, the angry board member has made very sarcastic one lined zingers at both myself and the other individual. ( an example would be... MMMM I think you should calm yourself down. and take at look, nobody shares in your beliefs. ) He is the only one who lashes out like this, and then is kind enough to CC to all including our management company and our individual manager.

None the less, I have asked about a code of ethics and there has been no movement on this. I personally do not wish to antagonize this individual, or even try to work whatever out because he is an unworkable individual. I hate to label, but I have tried and pretty much got no where. '

Any advice?
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
personally, try not to worry about it. people who write things in email they may later regret will pay the price. Keep your pride, and stay on the high road, and let this person have all the rope they want.

You can't change them, and any reaction you give them just feeds their desire for attention. Just ignore it, go about your good work, and let them wither away.
NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Thanks, it's hard not to respond to a zinger like his, but you are so right. The rest of the board may or may not feel this man's concerns, but he is the only one who responds this way.

Its only a matter of time before he is mad at someone else.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
NoelleC - Depending on what your email originally said, it's hard to know if he's being truthful or not. If truly unwarranted, I'd reply simply that "You are aware that your email to me as follows is sarcastic, considered cyber bullying, improper conduct from a Board member, and if it continues will be legally actionable since I am putting you on notice to immediately stop and conduct yourself like a gentleman.".

However, what was your email that he was responding to.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
You said:
"When we sent out emails and ask opinions or share information on agenda items"

These discussion sound like Board business that (unless it's specifically OK to conduct meetings this way in your bylaws) should be conducted at live meetings.

At the beginning of the meeting, the Agenda can be adopted or amended, then approved. Discussing Opinions and shared information is to be done at meetings only.

You can stop all this petty stuff by only emailing announcements and pre-approved minutes. No verbal exchanges on topics should be happening over the net.
NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
This is in regards to the previous poster asking what did this guy post and what was all the emails about?

Specifically, this isn't new stuff what we are discussing, rather fine details on items we already appoved. It was an agenda item last month approved by board majority This incident was in regards to work we voted to get started. It appears as if the installer was stating in order for us to have optimal use of the installed item it may need to be either move the origin of site or add on a few more ( I am not going into detail on what this is, but it is security related)

We recieved the proposed work invoice along in regards to the additiaional work. I approved it but asked for the board to enquire about the labor costs as it was excessive in opinion, and givng we had a huge project underway I thought the cost could be less since the work was going to be done at the same time. That was all I asked,

This is the example of the one line zinger sent to me, the entire board and our HOA Management Company. (WE HAVE AND ARE MOVING FORWARD in spite of actions taken by those designed to hinder, disrupt and delay progress.) Mind you this was directed at me, sent to all and my email was nothing but professional.

Thank you.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
NoelleC - You need to confront this person in a Board Executive or Workshop meeting that is not open to owners, read the email, and any others, and ask him to explain who is hindering and how. Fight fire with fire, don't let it go unrecognized that this person is bully you or other Board members, speaking untruths, and undermining the integrity of the Board.
NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
I have printed this out and plan if I so desire to take it to next weeks meeting. Grant it, I would like for this man to discuss why he feels this was appropriate, and where the attempt to prolong any thing is. I feel he will be dancing like a cat on a hot tin roof... all zingers and comments are never done in person, but via email where he can hide behind a screen. He avoids comments like this in executive obviously due to the fact that they will become part of the minutes. I know that his conduct has been not in the best of the board, homeowners have actually asked me about his integrity giving past issues and some are seeing him for what he is. Our annual meeting is May due to issues with ballots not getting out ect.

Say a prayer if you believe in that this yahoo gets voted off. We have new candidates running this year and someone will be leaving no doubt.

Noelle
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If you are going to print this out and present it to the others, I am going to repeat an important sentence, which I feel is at the center of the issue:

"You can stop all this petty stuff by only emailing announcements and pre-approved minutes. No verbal exchanges on topics should be happening over the net."

Your group must stop conducting Board business over emails!

NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
You are corrent Susan. Now, what do you do if hour HOA board can not adhere to the email situation you are making a reference too?

Also, I did put the emailer on alert that his emails are outside of his role, is unacceptable and will be dealt with if they continue? I will review our ccrs and bylaws.

What now ??
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
"What now ??" Well a poster here believes "HOA Volunteers deserve to (be) treated with respect and dignity." Maybe you should point this out to your fellow board member.
NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
That Harold has been attempted many times. I am at the point to where I am contacting the owner of our managment company for advisement in regards to action that can be taken. I am also reviewing the ccr's and the bylaws. It's a legnthy read, but I will say that there are actions that can be taken... some of which can include removal of voting previledges.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Read JosephW's thread "New Litigation on Forums" on this site.

That might get some of your board members to be quiet.
NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
I also did something nobody has done before. I placed a call to our Managment co. who has been on every CC'd email from the angry board member. I asked them not necessarily about the opinion of the content but how they viewed it over all.

The comment was" it is very uncomfortable and a hinderance to all". We have to read every email that comes through and honestly we don't need to be bothered with anything other than HOA issues, decisions and actions to take.

I asked her if this can be brought to our executive session and requested as from the management company to keep things on the up and up and to keep personal issues as bay. She said she would do this, but needed approval first from the owner, but felt it was necessary.

( I thought this could help curb the insanity, have it on record and also let it be known that our MC doesn't stand for such conduct. )
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
I am reluctant to add my comments, but I will.

I realize there is a lot more to this story than is portrayed here. There is always three sides to every issue. I have no clue what else is going on but I will make an observation.

From the two examples of the emails you cite, I find nothing that would make me take such drastic measures as you seem to be taking. I agree, the emails are not professional, maybe annoying but there sure aren't the level I hear you state. I wonder if they have hit a nerve in you because you have a guilty feeling? Have you considered just letting it die and not keep pushing for justice? If it were me, I would take a deep breath, maybe compose a strong rebuttal email, take another deep breath and never send it. (I even have a draft email that has been sitting for a month that I would like to send, but reason tells me not to.)

I can see why the management company is very uncomfortable about all this. It is taking a lot of time on their part that has nothing to do with managing the property.

Are you not a better person than the sender and can rise above this pettiness and just ignore them? You are giving them exactly what they want and they now have power over you. Take back your power and you will be a better person for it.

Or

Maybe you all go out in the parking lot and see who can beat the crap out of the other and winner take all (:
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
NoelleC - It's often helpful to get others to rally to your side, to put some weight behind enforcing or speaking out about the unfairness of others. I feel for your situation since I have come across a bully or two in my HOA time. You don't need the MC's permission to bring anything up, rather you should bring it up yourself, or speak to the President and get Board conduct towards Board and Association members.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
NoelleC: I find your concerns over email to be another wrinkle in your experience with the Exec. Board. You seem to be one who raises a lot of questions, likes things done just so and enjoys being proactive. All these traits are great to have; the downside of them is knowing when to use them and when not to use them. You asked questions about the invoicing for this project; however, it would appear the Board had voted on the project, and had already approved it with a yes to go forward.

You state, ..."It appears as if the installer was stating in order for us to have optimal use of the installed item it may need to be either move the origin of site or add on a few more..."??? The words 'it appears' sounds like the situation was not clear to you and to send remarks in an email only fuels the ongoing problem of unclear communication for you. Obviously your email with questions and remarks were taken as a hindrance to getting the job done since the vote had been taken and passed. I would expect if there were unresolved issues with the installer they would have been raised to the collective Board and as a group discuss them and come to a solution. Try not to continually set yourself up to be the one who doesn't cooperate. Try to raise your questions at the proper time over discussion of the project, in person, and before casting your vote when it becomes a done deal.

NoelleC (California)
Posts: 42
Posted:
None the less the situation of this email is such that there are so many more than this one, this is just the most recent.

The last line of the email cc'd to all was asking for mine and another member to step down as we are slowing things down, a hinderance and worst of all, working to undermine the board on which we serve.

That of course was cc'd to all including our managment company, and it's 2 manangers..

The management company is going ot ask him not to cc this stuff anymore and I am asking in our executive session to please request all email be of professional nature, not name calling, insults ect.

JaneK (California)
Posts: 175
Posted:
The board may be acting illegally if association business is being discussed by email. In CA all board business must be discussed in open meeting per CA CC 1363.05 with the exception of items that can be discussed in ‘executive session.’ (you can look it up here http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html ) I’m surprised you management rep hasn’t brought this up. Law overrides association documents. Also check http://www.californiacondoguru.com/mainpage.html and http://www.davis-stirling.com/index.html there is much good information on those sites. Check them for articles on email and board meetings.

You said,

“The last line of the email cc'd to all was asking for mine and another member to step down as we are slowing things down, a hinderance and worst of all, working to undermine the board on which we serve.

That of course was cc'd to all including our managment company, and it's 2 manangers.. “

Check ‘defamation’ also.

Also, the emails may become “official records” of the association and could end up in court. Don’t delete them, they may become ‘evidence.’
Board emails can be dangerous.
Jane
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
"Board emails can be dangerous." Very wise words.
VinceS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Since I have been an active Board member, and a fond believer of saving things?!
I can only say thanks for staying away from the delete button. It seems like this
man (person) has something "personal" even though he is talking with an audience.
My belief, know your battles, fight them cleanly,and remember that good always triumphs over evil (if the case). In closing: I don't know the complete history
here, but from what I am gathering. He needs to stop counting all the blades of
the grass and move on. And last, not to be mean or scornful here, when push comes
to shove. I have over 238 (yes) electronic messages saved and hard copied. Most times when we schedule our Board meetings, no one can attend! Good-Luck. : ) You
may ask are they permissable in court? Answer YES
ShawnaF (Colorado)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Emails between Board members ARE records of the Association. Your BOD Secretary should have copies of ALL emails (even those in which they are not directly involved) and those should be attached to your minutes at the next official meeting and do not amend them in any way. It's a great way to stop things like this, remind your Board what is and is not appropriate to talk about via email (seeing a couple silly conversations attached to the Minutes will stop everyone from being unprofessional), AND to show your community that you are actively trying to be transparent in your actions and decisions on behalf of the association.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Vince,

Please explain your remark, "most times when we schedule our board meetings, no one can attend". Are you aware that AZ has an open meeting law which states all meetings of the assn and BOD are open to all members and must be properly noticed? There is a bill before the Legislature this session which amends the law to include email communications, among other things. If passed, a quorum of the BOD ". . .shall not meet, conduct business or make any decisions by means of electronic mail communications."

Mary
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I just read through these posts and may be way off, but I get the feeling that this Board (all members), are doing an awful of business on the fly. This can happen because no one really knows what your documents require. This causes all kinds of problems. We really should have an indoctrination course on understanding the documents and what they mean and not what the Board members want them to mean. The initial problem with an individual will of course repeat itself if he don't get an attitude adjustment, and I have no way of knowing who is right, but, your documents probably do not support or allow this type of thing. Call a special meeting, and incidently, where is the leader of the pack, the President. He should be out in front here on the nasty one episode and also this mass of confusion about e-mails. For your management company to agree with you is not going to approve matters. Before the Board goes to the Town Meeting, make sure you all are on the same page. If you have dissenters in your ranks, it will become clear, and sides will be formed. That is when your documents prove their worth.

Inform all that the Board has a mandate to protect the association's Real Property, by making decisions for the property, now and in the future. The board is not directed to please everyone and majority does not rule. Not all actions by the Board require a vote of the council.

Govern from knowledge not from personalities.

Invite anyone to prove you wrong.

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