VinceS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
Why don't Volunteer HOA'S work ?? Anyone want to know 
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Volunteer HOA'S
Started by VinceS1 • 13 replies • 1228 views
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HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posts: 906
Posted:
Yes, I'll bite.
VinceS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
My family and I have lived in our 16 unit condominium complex for over 10 years
in Phoenix Arizona. When we first moved in I didn't even know what an HOA was?
Once I understood the logistics of an HOA I started to respect it even after recieving notices in the past of "minor" infractions. Moving on I than became a participant with our self governed board only reallizing that we were not the bad folks!! Everyone else was! It was like reading or participating in a National Enquirer novel. I have witnessed 5 people on the board resign because of a very naughty (nasty) treasurer that was very rude when translating to the owners. My thoughts were to befriend her and I had taken the open spot of being president since no one else wanted it.(this was 2 years ago). When she and I had been the only ones running the "roost" here, we had enforced the CC & RS for everyone to comply with the rules. Before I continue, no one likes to be told what to do and how to do it! That being said as newer owners had moved in and I was disgruntled
with our treasurer, for financial questions that were not answered! I had asked a
few owners to participate, and to my likeness I thought that all would be well and done. Since the 3 women that I had begged to join the board, and allegations were and had been made about our finances. Life has been not so good! Now all of a sudden I am the demon here. My intentions while still living here are to protect my family and (our) properties. Before I continue, I also found out that we were (Our complex) not even registered with the state of Arizona a few years back? Before I take up all of this space on HOA Talk. There is much more Please let me continue! And pardon the punctuation.
in Phoenix Arizona. When we first moved in I didn't even know what an HOA was?
Once I understood the logistics of an HOA I started to respect it even after recieving notices in the past of "minor" infractions. Moving on I than became a participant with our self governed board only reallizing that we were not the bad folks!! Everyone else was! It was like reading or participating in a National Enquirer novel. I have witnessed 5 people on the board resign because of a very naughty (nasty) treasurer that was very rude when translating to the owners. My thoughts were to befriend her and I had taken the open spot of being president since no one else wanted it.(this was 2 years ago). When she and I had been the only ones running the "roost" here, we had enforced the CC & RS for everyone to comply with the rules. Before I continue, no one likes to be told what to do and how to do it! That being said as newer owners had moved in and I was disgruntled
with our treasurer, for financial questions that were not answered! I had asked a
few owners to participate, and to my likeness I thought that all would be well and done. Since the 3 women that I had begged to join the board, and allegations were and had been made about our finances. Life has been not so good! Now all of a sudden I am the demon here. My intentions while still living here are to protect my family and (our) properties. Before I continue, I also found out that we were (Our complex) not even registered with the state of Arizona a few years back? Before I take up all of this space on HOA Talk. There is much more Please let me continue! And pardon the punctuation.
VinceS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
There is much more to this story.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VinceS1: Before you continue on with your story, you need to explain how/why your 'complex' is not registered with the state of Arizona...as a condo association? IF you are not registered, meaning the developer never declared it to be an association, why do you think you are one? What do Arizona laws require?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Well, there is the tendency to want "to kill the messenger." But Residents need to know that the Board has no more power than what is listed in the official documents.
Are you too emeshed in the entire scene? For one thing, you can stop "personalizing" the rules and regulations. They are what they are, and the facts are in writing.
For some reason, residents see you as enforcer and interpreter, rather than part of a governing board. Time to step down and let someone else govern for a while.
Time to let yourself - and others - breathe.
Are you too emeshed in the entire scene? For one thing, you can stop "personalizing" the rules and regulations. They are what they are, and the facts are in writing.
For some reason, residents see you as enforcer and interpreter, rather than part of a governing board. Time to step down and let someone else govern for a while.
Time to let yourself - and others - breathe.
VinceS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
I remember 2 years back that when another Homeowner threatened to sue the HOA
that's when we found out that we were not official? We had to go and reapply with the State. I didn't go the women brought back the paperwork for me to sign. It was myself the treasurer, and secretary that signed it.
that's when we found out that we were not official? We had to go and reapply with the State. I didn't go the women brought back the paperwork for me to sign. It was myself the treasurer, and secretary that signed it.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Are you talking about the Annual Report? If so, those just have to be brought up to date - and it sounds like that happened.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Vince,
I live in AZ and have been involved with HOA issues for approx. 10 years. There is no requirement to "register" an HOA in the state of AZ. However, if your assn is a non-profit corp (most all are), then you are required to file an annual report with the Corp. Commission.
Please clarify what you mean by saying you found out you were not "official" and had to reapply with the State?
I'm also interested to know why you think you are a volunteer association.
Thx,
Mary
I live in AZ and have been involved with HOA issues for approx. 10 years. There is no requirement to "register" an HOA in the state of AZ. However, if your assn is a non-profit corp (most all are), then you are required to file an annual report with the Corp. Commission.
Please clarify what you mean by saying you found out you were not "official" and had to reapply with the State?
I'm also interested to know why you think you are a volunteer association.
Thx,
Mary
VinceS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
Mary,
it must have been something we never filed for, because it was stated to me
that we had to "reapply". The association I (we) live in is self governed.
That being said everything that everyone does here is volunteer. I would like
very much to have our complex governed by professional means.And it is very
difficult when we don't have everyone participating.(or the majority)
it must have been something we never filed for, because it was stated to me
that we had to "reapply". The association I (we) live in is self governed.
That being said everything that everyone does here is volunteer. I would like
very much to have our complex governed by professional means.And it is very
difficult when we don't have everyone participating.(or the majority)
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Vince,
I'm thinking the annual report must have lapsed; someone must have forgotten to file it and after several years the Corp. Commission declares the corporation dissolved. It's really no big deal -- no penalties are issued. All you have to do is reapply and pay the back fees ($10/year).
I would tend to agree that you should hire a professional HOA mgmt co. Even though there are only 16 units, a condo complex offers more challenges to manage efficiently. The common elements consist of more than just a grassy strip at the entrace (as is the case in many planned communities. Add to that swimming pools, tennis courts, clubhouse, private streets. An adequate reserve account is critical to provide for future maint. of these elements. On the other hand, if the board members are willing to put in the required amount of hours, there's no reason why the assn can't continue to be self-managed. However, I've found that most board members (whether the assn is self-managed or not) don't want to spend much time "on-the-job" and aren't willing to learn anything about HOAs which includes knowing the gov docs backward and forward, along with applicable state and federal laws. When something goes wrong, most will say, "We're only volunteers!". This mantra is like chalk across a blackboard to me. All HOAs are managed by "volunteers" but that doesn't mean those people are excused for not doing a good job.
Now if your board decides to hire a mgmt co, they (the board members) must remember are still in charge. This is the mistake too many boards make. They think by hiring a mgmt co they won't have any responsibility. The onus is always on the board, even if the assn is not self-managed. And, I hope they will be very careful in choosing the right one. A bit of advice STAY AWAY FROM ROSSMAR & GRAHAM!!!
Mary
I'm thinking the annual report must have lapsed; someone must have forgotten to file it and after several years the Corp. Commission declares the corporation dissolved. It's really no big deal -- no penalties are issued. All you have to do is reapply and pay the back fees ($10/year).
I would tend to agree that you should hire a professional HOA mgmt co. Even though there are only 16 units, a condo complex offers more challenges to manage efficiently. The common elements consist of more than just a grassy strip at the entrace (as is the case in many planned communities. Add to that swimming pools, tennis courts, clubhouse, private streets. An adequate reserve account is critical to provide for future maint. of these elements. On the other hand, if the board members are willing to put in the required amount of hours, there's no reason why the assn can't continue to be self-managed. However, I've found that most board members (whether the assn is self-managed or not) don't want to spend much time "on-the-job" and aren't willing to learn anything about HOAs which includes knowing the gov docs backward and forward, along with applicable state and federal laws. When something goes wrong, most will say, "We're only volunteers!". This mantra is like chalk across a blackboard to me. All HOAs are managed by "volunteers" but that doesn't mean those people are excused for not doing a good job.
Now if your board decides to hire a mgmt co, they (the board members) must remember are still in charge. This is the mistake too many boards make. They think by hiring a mgmt co they won't have any responsibility. The onus is always on the board, even if the assn is not self-managed. And, I hope they will be very careful in choosing the right one. A bit of advice STAY AWAY FROM ROSSMAR & GRAHAM!!!
Mary
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VinceS1 on 03/22/2008 7:56 PM
Why don't Volunteer HOA'S work ?? Anyone want to know
Why don't Volunteer HOA'S work ?? Anyone want to know
Just for fun, I will play devil's advocate, and challenge the first statement: Volunteer HOA's can work, they work every day. Perhaps not as a group of like minded home owners who band together, but as a group of like minded people who band together for a cause, all kinds of organizations exist purely on a volunteer basis (or at least volunteer for most members).
The Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy, Democrats for Change, Young Republicans, Anarchists for Peace, My local Sporting and Rifle Club, my Hobby club, the garden club, the Boy Scouts and Girl SCouts... all of them are staffed and funded purely through volunteers at the local level (with some paid personnel at the top). All funding comes voluntarily, all efforts are grass roots. If your Volunteer HOA cannot work, perhaps they should examine whether they are truly serving the needs and goals of their members, as more successful organizations that have managed that have survived for over a hundred years.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Brian,
Agreed!!
You've stated a number of orgs that are strictly volunteer. I've known people who've belonged to some, myself included, but don't recall ever hearing anyone say "we're just volunteers!" But that is the mantra you hear far to often from HOA board members. Like it's an excuse for their ineptness so we should all just accept it and not hold them responsibile!!! Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on board members; I've been there, done that!
Mary
Agreed!!
You've stated a number of orgs that are strictly volunteer. I've known people who've belonged to some, myself included, but don't recall ever hearing anyone say "we're just volunteers!" But that is the mantra you hear far to often from HOA board members. Like it's an excuse for their ineptness so we should all just accept it and not hold them responsibile!!! Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on board members; I've been there, done that!
Mary
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 03/25/2008 8:40 AM
Brian,
Agreed!!
You've stated a number of orgs that are strictly volunteer. I've known people who've belonged to some, myself included, but don't recall ever hearing anyone say "we're just volunteers!" But that is the mantra you hear far to often from HOA board members. Like it's an excuse for their ineptness so we should all just accept it and not hold them responsibile!!! Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on board members; I've been there, done that!
Mary
Brian,
Agreed!!
You've stated a number of orgs that are strictly volunteer. I've known people who've belonged to some, myself included, but don't recall ever hearing anyone say "we're just volunteers!" But that is the mantra you hear far to often from HOA board members. Like it's an excuse for their ineptness so we should all just accept it and not hold them responsibile!!! Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on board members; I've been there, done that!
Mary
I've heard it mentioned quite often over the years, in any number of "volunteer" organizations.
It's more personality-specific and has less to do with the type of organization than with the person making the statement, or the person to whom the statement needs to be made, or even the reason for the statement to begin with. And there can be a number of legitimate reasons for it to be uttered.
One of the biggest problems with working with volunteers in ANY organization is that they ARE volunteers and are not as easy to "motivate" as hired, for-pay workers. It was a lesson I learned the hard way many many years ago when producing fundraising events for local charities.
Conversely, I've never heard any HOA board member make that statement as an excuse for ineptness, however, I HAVE heard some make it as a reminder to people as to WHY we don't respond to their demands and inquiries 24/7 or why the wheels of action don't move according to someone ELSE'S time frame. Since we only meet once a month, it may take a bit longer for an action to be vetted, voted on, approved and then implemented than if it were ferried through a corporate office somewhere with people who clock in at 9 and out at 5 every day of the week.
I've had homeowners call me on Friday after mailing in a check on Monday and wanting to know WHY the check has not cleared their bank yet.
I've said it myself a time or two, and I take offense to the implication that I make the statement as a cover for ineptness. If anything, it's a way to manage expectations.
People have expectations of a full-time, paid board or management company. As they should. But it is ridiculous to place those same expectations on a volunteer board.
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