When can you see financials?

Since my Board makes many financial decisions in secret, I ask for, and receive, my condo's cumulative monthly financial reports a few times each year. The timing is after they have been prepared for the Board. There is no need for a Board to formally accept them since they are reports, not something one votes on.

We have 10-12 regulars who attend the BOD meetings; the MC rep brings copies of the financials the BOD receives except for the delinquent list which are passed out to the homeowners present.

As a homeowner your concerns are valid if your concerned about things like pulling up living trees without reason or spending money that is wasteful. That is why I got on the board to begin with. I'm ready to give our pres. an allowance.

Keep in mind. Just because a previous board approved something in discussion not by vote. The new board isn't obligated to follow thru with it. When old board members remain on the board so does thier personal agendas. Give the new members time to gather the documentation needed to get a full understanding of what is occuring. The more they inquire the more they find out and the more things don't add up. They will either stop what has been occurring or take action to elimenate the problem. Just give them a little time and have faith in your treasurer.

Those quotes mostly deal with information about the members of the association. "Examine" means to "look at."

Your original post asked about financial reports. Those should be available at any and every board meeting.

You DO have the right to see the minutes of the meetings, and Treasurer's reports should be attached to all minutes. Set up an appointment with the Secretary so you can "examine" the treasurer's reports and get any questions answered. You are not going to be allowed to examine the checkbook, however.

The issue of privacy has been waived when you joined the association. The HOA may not release it to others outside the limits of the law.

Robert,

I'm not clear on your question. Are you a board member who want to examine financial records? Or are you a member of the assn? If you are a board member, you should get a copy of the financial statement each month. And, if you want to see the check book or any other financial doc, you should be able to see it. However, if you are a member, you may be required to ask to see the records. Check out ARS 33-1258 (condos) or 33-1805 (planned communities) which are the state statutes governing assn financial and other records. Although the statute doesn't specifically say it, I would advise putting your request in writing.

Mary

Why not ask the prop. mgr when the financials are ready? Let him/her know you would like to have a copy so you can ask an intelligent question at the board meeting, should you feel the need. Perhaps you can have a letter put on file requesting a copy at a certain time of the month each month. Some prop mgrs are very accommodating, others perhaps not.

Mary

DavidW5, yes I agree with the difference between the close of the monthly accounts and when the reports are prepared. I should have clarified my option 1 to mean the earliest that the reports are ready, which are usually a small number of days after the end of the month. I would relate it to a bank statement is closed on a certain date, but you get the statement in the mail (or wherever) a few days later. I really meant the few days later.

Since there is no approval or even accepted (though this board doesn't understand this concept), then why can't I see them before the board sees them (like the day before the meeting). Nothing is going to change the report since the board takes no action on it. The board can't reject it. It is what it is. What magic is the board doing that makes is so I HAVE to wait until they see it?

Thank you, that was really helpful.

Let me try a scenario, it might be a bit bogus.

First, by law, members are allowed to speak for or against any motion the board makes before they vote. Also, homeowners will have time to make comments on any subject at the appropriate time (at end of meeting). I don't want that part debated for this point.

So, the board brings up a motion to spend $500 on paint the fences in area like the ones that were painted last month. The board talks a bit and are ready to vote. No one mentions anything about the previous painting. As just a homeowner, I would like be sure the amount of money is a) reasonable based upon the last month's painting, and b) we still have funds for the painting budget for the year. If I don't have a financial statement available, then I would not be able to be prepared to speak about the issue. Obviously I could ask the board to give me that number before they vote, but why would I have to ask?

Now also, let us say that last month the board spent a lot of money on some project. They don't even talk about it during the meeting. How would I know that it was even spent last month unless I see the expenditure report. Sure, I could see it after the board meeting, or during the meeting if they hand it out then, but I would not have any time to research the issue. The expense could actually be a mistake and the treasurer didn't see it either.

This might not be great reasons, but why should homeowners be in the dark?

RobertG says: "Let me try a scenario, it might be a bit bogus."

That's an understatement.

My very first reaction after I read the entire thread up to this point, including your scenario, is this: do you want to also, as a homeowner, dictate to them how many pieces of toilet paper they must use in executing personal hygiene? Exactly how much micro-management should the homeowners be permitted?

Glen's post was as succinct and persuasive as any on this thread.

These are the people who were elected to represent the interests of the homeowners and the HOA. They have specific roles and responsibilities in their function and duties.

Pandering to paranoid and obsessive homeowners should not be one of them.

You have a venue for expressing and commenting on actions the board takes. Hampering, micro-managing and obstructing their legitimate decision-making process helps neither you nor them, nor does it benefit the HOA.

But back to your given example: If you as "just" a homeowner, would like be sure the amount of money is a) reasonable based upon the last month's painting, and b) that you still have funds for the painting budget for the year, then before the vote is taken, stand up, and ask those questions.

If you think your board is so incompetent that they can't (DUH) figure out if the amount is reasonable based upon last month's painting, or that they don't have the intelligence or foresight to (DUH) figure out if there will still be funds in the painting budget left over for the year, then you have board problems bigger than whether homeowners get to see the financials BEFORE the board does and BEFORE the monthly meeting.

If you suspect the board is misusing funds, then there are other avenues by which you can pursue that than by insisting to "review" the financials BEFORE the duly elected officers even get them.

If you consider them incompetent, then begin the process of removing them and electing people whom you feel the residents can stand behind and trust.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this endeavor is beginning to sound more like harassment than like a legitimate request or desire to participate as a homeowner.

If you have copies of the financials each month, then when you get the one for the current meeting, you don't really have a whole lot of homework to do. You should already be familiar with the past actions by the time the next meeting comes up. It's sounding very thin, the excuses you are giving. And I'm very curious as to what your real purpose and/or agenda is for your request.

Our board fails to provide us with the records after requesting them from the board.
We have also contact the HOA's attorney and they still fail to show us the records
We contacted the Insurance Company to let them know they still have not provided us the time to review the records.
We wrote the homeowners to inform them that the board has refused to provide us the opportunity to review the records.

The board wrote this below in a newsletter to the homeowners:

A homeowner has requested a copy of the list of names and addresses for all the homeowners in the association. Washington State law RCW 64.38.045 section 2; requires that the HOA keeps a list of homeowners, and has it available for examination upon request. The Board feels that this is an issue of privacy and will not provide copies of the list to anyone unless approved by each individual homeowner. If you would like the HOA to provide your name and address to anyone that may request it in the future, please send in your consent for the release of this information to the Board at the following address.

This is what the RCW really states below or read for yourself do not trust this board to be honest with you: RCW 64.38.045

(2) All records of the association, including the names and addresses of owners and other occupants of the lots, shall be available for examination by all owners, holders of mortgages on the lots, and their respective authorized agents on reasonable advance notice during normal working hours at the offices of the association or its managing agent. The association shall not release the unlisted telephone number of any owner. The association may impose and collect a reasonable charge for copies and any reasonable costs incurred by the association in providing access to records. (They forgot to add this part in blue, if they will try to mislead you about this, what else will they mislead you about.)

The board wrote back and said this:

RCW 64.38.045 states: All records of the association, including the names and addresses of owners and other occupants of the lots, shall be available for exalnil1ation by all owners.

We do not have to provide copies; only make the records available for review. In your case until you account for the items listed above we will not provide access or copies. You are welcome to post this on your website in its entirety, un-edited.

You can see every thing that we wrote on our web site:

http://www.cp2hoa-info.com/

Robert, after any motion is made there is "debate time" before the motion is called for its vote.

At that time you should be able to ask your questions. If you can't get answers, urge the Board to vote NO on the motion until the answers are provided.

As a general member, that's about as much as you can do.

I'm sorry I didn't know I was supposed to. As you know from my reply to another of your posts, I am sympathetic to your plight. While I'll agree that the BOD is supposed to provide you the information you requested. If they do not; you have the option of taking them to court to provide it. Or you can go to your county recorders website and get the information about owners there. It is there for everyone to see including copies of their mortgages, at least it is on ours. While WA does not have much in the way of HOA laws you may be able to get the information under their corporation law. (I know yours is inactive)

If your Association is in as big of a mess as you say, rally the H/O's and recall the BOD and put your own candidates in place to clean it up.