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BobH6 (Ohio)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Good morning. I am looking for some advice for a friend of mine.
She owns a condo in Westlake Ohio.
In January, when she was at work, the toilet flush valve in the unit above her failed.
For 9 hours, water poured into her unit.
She works for a construction company and paid $2500 out of pocket to have the required repair done to her condo. Drywall removal and replacemet, painting, etc.

This is the kicker. The Association sent her a bill for $1418 which is 28% of the $5000 deductible for the associations insurance company, State Farm. This was for work that was done outside of her condo.

I am not a condo owner. Just trying to help a friend.
On what planet could she be held liable? Are condo Associations that cobbled that this bylaw could exist?
I told her to put her condo fees into an escrow account.
I told her the $2500 she has already spent is probably on her.
\Thank you in advance for anyones help

Bob H
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
she should immediately contact the board and ask how they determined 28% of the damage was her fault. This should be done in writing, nicely, and followed up in person with phone calls, at the meetings, etc.. Also, the advice on escrow was good, and she should also contact her insurance company, and utilize their power to get resolution. make sure she gives them every phone number and name she has for the board, so they can contact them.

Lastly, she could possibly take the unit owner above her to small claims court for recovery (or sue in normal court, if the damages are too large for small claims). I would hold off on this last option until the insurance company worked it's magic on the board.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BobH6: Your friend... "paid $2500 out of pocket to have the required repair done to her condo. Drywall removal and replacemet, painting, etc." I have a question for your friend....
Why, oh why, did she opt to send in a claim to her own insurance company and pay the deductible necessary ($2500?) when the fault was with the owner's unit above her.

The owner would have had to submit a claim to their insurance company to cover cost of their repairs as well as damage which occurred to other units as a result of their plumbing problem.

Further, it would depend on what the friend's official documents state regarding repair to the outside of her condo unit, insurance issues, and how/whether the Assn. is to be compensated.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Talk with an attorney BEFORE you go the escrow route. In Ohio it is against the law to withhold money from a condo association with a claim that they did not do their duty. If she doesn't pay and they decide to foreclose she may not have a leg to stand on. As was stated previously find out first why she the victim is being charged, then determine a course of action. You could also sue the person who caused the damage to recover this 28% charge.

5311.18 (6) In any foreclosure action, it is not a defense, set off, counterclaim, or crossclaim that the unit owners association has failed to provide the unit owner with any service, goods, work, or material, or failed in any other duty.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BobH6 (Ohio)
Posts: 3
Posted:
The reason, I just found out after the first post was she did not have insurance. As you may already know many condo owners are under the impression they are insured by the Assocition, which is not true.
She has insurance now
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BobH6: IF she had no insurance at the time of the plumbing incident, all the more reason why did she not go directly to those who are at fault from the unit upstairs? Has she decided to submit a claim to them now?
BobH6 (Ohio)
Posts: 3
Posted:
My friend is fighting 2 battles.

First is the tenant upstairs. She sent the girl the bills for the work she had done. 3 times. So far no response.

Second battle is with the Association.
They sent her the 28% bill to cover the deductible for the work the Association had done. They hired a company to come in and run air driers and I don't know what else work.

She has been told that the fire department determined the problem was a faulty flush valve in the toilet. Therefore the association determined the tenant where the problem occured was not at fault.

So would it not make sense that the Association has a responsibility to sue the Valve Manufacturer? It seems it was just easier to send my friend a bill and then go have coffee.

By the way, your responses are gratefully appreciated.
Happy Easter

Bob H
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Condo insurance is sometimes very complicated and your friend seems to have jumped the gun. The Condo docs may determine who is responsible for what. The master policy policy for the association usually follows the docs. With Master Policies and Condos, you have the bare walls concept or single entity coverage and other forms. Some condos say that the unit owner is responsible for everything inside the unfinished drywall surface and others may use the line where the face of the stud meets the backside surface of the unfinished drywall. Then if your friend had previously spent the $150 or so for what the industry calls an ISO HO6 Condo Unit Owner Policy, then she probably wouldn't be in this bucket. This policy not only covers contents but also covers "Additions and Alterations" or "betterments"; which is basically coverage for your dwelling where the Master Policy leaves off. Usually you'd coordinate with the Insurance Claim on the Master Policy and they would tell you what they will and won't cover. Note also, sometimes if you can prove negligence, you might be able to get the upstairs neighbor to pay for the damages. In the case of my investment/rental condo, I know that the Condo docs are written so that if the water came from a pipe that ONLY services your unit, then BAM!, you're responsible for all damages (to your unit, your neighbor's unit as well as the common elements. No one has to prove negligence per se in this case. Flush valves become faulty all the time when they aren't routinely replaced, so I don't think much about filing suit against the Valve Manafacturer. Our Condo Assocications water bill was so high (No indiv unit pays for water), that they establish a policy having our building engineer fix any leaky toilets (at no charge), just for this reason. In our Condo association, no one takes care of the simple stuff inside the condo like cleaning out the AC evaporator drain and routinely replacing the toilet fill valves. Another reason to carry the HO6 Unit Owner policy besides water damage (especially if you have a renter in your condo), is Fire. We had a renter that routinely threw their clothes in the dryer and then they would just leave for work in the am. Because of all the lint buildup in the dryer vent, the condo caught fire and it displaced 4 families. If any of you all have investment properties out there with renters, make sure that you get a copy of their insurance policy every year so that there at least some liability coverage so that both you and the COA are somewhat protected.

As far as your friend is concerned, IMHO, I think that put the cart in front of the horse when she did all this work without authorization or without conferring with other concerned parties. I'm not a professional, but I recommend that your friend consult with an Insurance professional at this time. Start with her own personal lines insurance agent and get on board with the unit owner's policy.

It does sound crazy that they are sending her a bill for 28% of the deductible but this is something that she needs to work out (in writing) with the COA. They need to detail the reason, citing the COA rules that might apply in this case.

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