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AllisonG
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our HOA contracts with a company who sends employees who don't speak English. How can we put a phrase in the new contract that states he'll send a employee with whom we can immediately communicate? Phone tag is so frustrating, but we don't want to break any Federal laws.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

Allison,
Hopefully he has one who speaks English but don't count on it. You can ask but will you recieve? Don't hold your breath. In my interactions with the landscapers, there is always one with minimal English skills. It is a sign of the times in this land of ours. Good Luck.
PaulM
Posts: 1,325
Posted:
AllisonG: Your post is reflective of the continuing trend today. But, since your post does not sound like a complaint on the 'quality' of work received,
I wonder how far you can go with your request.

How much communication needs to take place between the owners/members and the workers? IF the maintenance contractor is under contract with the Board on behalf of the Association, and the workers are completing the work according to the contract, how much communication needs to go on between the owners and workers? I suggest the Board review with the contractor to be assured that 'his workers' know what they are to do and work is being completed accordingly.

If an owner has a problem with the type or quality of the maintenance being done, they should relay it to the Board or Prop. Mgr.

HaroldS
Posts: 902
Posted:
You probably have all the workers who have fled Arizona because of our new law targeting businesses that hire illegals.
What Federal laws are you concerned about breaking? Requesting someone to speak English is now against the law?
BrianB
Posts: 2,787
Posted:
Even though you are not likely a controlling employer, you might add this tactic to you arsenal...

In an attempt to comply with OSHA laws (regardless if you qualify to be regulated by OSHA, you can always ATTEMPT to follow their rules), you require 100% English speaking and literate employees, in order to understand emergency instructions, hazard education, and directions. All signage in the area is posted in ENGLISH only, and an ability to speak and read it is essential to the employee safety. This could include signs on electrical boxes (high voltage), etc., that landscapers may commonly encounter in their work on your property.

Remove any dual language signage: If you provide warning signage in more than English, you could be seen as establishing precedent. If you provide it in Spanish, what happens to the French electrician guy who can't read english or spanish? or the chinese mechanic, who reads Mandarin only? Or the Russian drywaller, or the Portugese laborer? You post in a second language, you may be required to post in all languages in order to cover your assetts from tort.

Then, be prepared to test for literacy among ALL contractors you hire, realizing the adult literacy rate in the US is horrible. You may have to let some other folks go too, under your policy.

SusanW1
Posts: 5,197
Posted:
Most of the time a "crew" is sent out to perform work. Most likely, the leader can speak English. Just make sure with your maintenance company knows that crew leaders must speak English. (The Board should not be speaking with workers or crew leaders, anyway, but that's another issue.)
hoatalk (Other)
Posts: 506
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 03/14/2008 12:11 PM
Even though you are not likely a controlling employer, you might add this tactic to you arsenal...

In an attempt to comply with OSHA laws (regardless if you qualify to be regulated by OSHA, you can always ATTEMPT to follow their rules), you require 100% English speaking and literate employees, in order to understand emergency instructions, hazard education, and directions. All signage in the area is posted in ENGLISH only, and an ability to speak and read it is essential to the employee safety. This could include signs on electrical boxes (high voltage), etc., that landscapers may commonly encounter in their work on your property.

Remove any dual language signage: If you provide warning signage in more than English, you could be seen as establishing precedent. If you provide it in Spanish, what happens to the French electrician guy who can't read english or spanish? or the chinese mechanic, who reads Mandarin only? Or the Russian drywaller, or the Portugese laborer? You post in a second language, you may be required to post in all languages in order to cover your assetts from tort.

Then, be prepared to test for literacy among ALL contractors you hire, realizing the adult literacy rate in the US is horrible. You may have to let some other folks go too, under your policy.


Interesting approach and reasoning. It also seems valid to prevent injuries and other problems.

Why would the HOA need to test for literacy? Why not just make this a requirement of the landscape contractor? The HOA doesn't test for other skills.

By the way, when making this type of requirement be prepared for the contractor to either say they can't comply or raise prices to accommodate the special request (either being fair in my opinion).

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PaulM
Posts: 1,325
Posted:
To all: IMO, to expect workers to speak English is not what the maintenance company was contracted for. IF the contract is between the company and the Board on behalf of the Association, there had to be someone who spoke English to agree (in English) to have the Association as a client.

The quality of the work is what is to be addressed only. If the level of work is not up to par, that's one issue to take care of. But, as another poster stated, the owners should not be conversing or 'giving instructions' to the workers. It is between the Board and the Maintenance Company, and for the Board to resolve any issues (in English or otherwise), not owners.

Any other thoughts for the OP?
BrianB
Posts: 2,787
Posted:
we face this problem in every company i worked for (the English only, dual signage, etc.). OSHA has one solution, the state and federal governments offer other laws that may compliment or compete with the OSHA requirements, but no matter what a company does, the lawyers are circling greedily, and every time an injury occurs, they jump in and feed. Technically, illiteracy is probably a disability the employee would have to disclose to the employer for consideration and accomodation, but... lawyers will win that arguement in a court easily enough, should they need to.

the reason for literacy testing is simple: You can post a sign that says "high voltage", but if a worker can't read it because he doesn't read the language, then some lawyer will claim you did not do "reasonable" steps to protect him (should have used pictures, skulls, personal training, audio devices, barricades, tethers, shock collars... you get the idea). But what if the person SPEAKS English just fine, but can't read (a shockingly large percentage of blue collar adult males are functionally illiterate), is he protected? So, there is potential case law and lawyers waiting for that too.

I will point out, however, that no company I ever worked for did a literacy test: It would force them to not hire people or fire others, and would be too much trouble. However, it is a very logical extension of the OSHA rules for protecting workers: you must give them training in a way they understand it. You can't show videos to a blind worker all day, you can't lecture to a deaf employee, etc.. You can't expect signage to work for illiterate folks.

GlenL
Posts: 5,429
Posted:
While I understand the desire to have at least the crew chief speak English trying something similar as gotten a Philadelphia restaurant in hot water: http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?c5222813&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Also it's easier to say you don't speak English if you don't like the order.
AllisonG
Posts: 5
Posted:
My thanks to everyone who responded..... In English.
JohnB7
Posts: 154
Posted:
....pas de quoa!

(...welcome!)

ha ha ha
BrianB
Posts: 2,787
Posted:
hey glen, just saw this today... looks like Cheesesteak guy was found to be in compliance with the city rules... so he survived the hot water, so far...

PHILADELPHIA – The owner of a famous cheesesteak shop did not discriminate when he posted signs asking customers to speak English, a city panel ruled yesterday.

In a 2-1 vote, a Commission on Human Relations panel found that two signs at Geno's Steaks telling customers, β€œThis is America: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH,' ” do not violate the city's Fair Practices Ordinance.

Shop owner Joe Vento has said he posted the signs in October 2005 because of concerns over immigration reform and an increasing number of people in the area who could not order in English. Vento said he never refused service to someone who couldn't order in English.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080320/news_1n20nation.html
GlenL
Posts: 5,429
Posted:
Thanks Brian, when I posted the matter had yet to be decided.
BrianB
Posts: 2,787
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 03/20/2008 10:18 PM
Thanks Brian, when I posted the matter had yet to be decided.

Oh, absolutely. thought you would like an update is all...

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