Beware of Dog sign on common area fence

Started by DwightT • 14 replies • 3790 views

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DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Like many HOAs, our CC&Rs have a regulation stating "No sign of any kind shall be displayed to public view" with the usual exception for "For Sale" signs. Recently a new homeowner put up a "Beware of Dog" sign on their back fence which faces a common pathway. The sign isn't a professional sign but instead is just red adhesive letters applied to the top of the vinyl fence. I've already received two complaints about from neighbors about it.

I haven't seen the dog, but others have commented that it seems friendly enough. If the dog is a problem I could see trying to limit their liability, but I think they could do it with a better looking sign placed in their yard, not spread across the fence.

If we ask them to remove the letters from the fence, does that open the HOA to any liability if the dog does bite someone? Any other thoughts?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Dwight,

That might be either an insurance liability issue or a County ordinance on warning signs of an enclosed animal.

But better yet, why not ask them to change the sign to a professional looking sign or have the board buy one that they want. The sign being on the fence in the back may be because someone was teasing the dog OR some dogs are very territorial to their home space. I would love a dog who warned me that someone was in my space.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

You can grant an exception to the regulations for public safety, but you should be able to determine what the sign should look like. Why not have them submit a sign design to the board for approval?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Also, who does the fence belong to? If it is the association fence, then for sure the Board can requires a specific type of sign. Either way, the Board has the right to have a requirement as to the look of this type of sign. I would NOT make them take a sign down because of the liability issue but require the type of sign.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

DwightT - Who the fence belongs to is not relevant since the cc&r states no sign of any kind shall be displayed to public view. Not sure insurance wise if liability is removed because a sign is posted or not. That would be something good to learn from an insurance expert. Technically the Board has an obligation to uphold the cc&r. Depending on your governing documents, technically the Board may not be able to relax enforcement of the rule because it's very explicit in how it's written. Another poster said to look to local ordinance, good recommendation.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

True. If its the CCR and not a rule under the control of the board, it may not be up to the board to provide an exception. That would be more involed. CCRs can't be violated - not even by the board.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Thanks all. The sign rule is in the CC&Rs, so we do need to enforce it from that standpoint. However, since this is their back yard, I don't think there would be any objections if they had a small sign in their yard to warn about the dog. In searching through the forum I did find one posting about a modest decorative sign placed in the garden. I may suggest something along those lines.

Our local ordinances do not say anything about warning signs. The closest that I could find was about "Vicious dogs" and their control. A dog that has been declared vicious must be licensed by the city and animal control must be notified of it's presence, but nothing about warning signs. In the process of searching for info though I did find one claim that posting a "Beware of Dog" sign would be seen by the courts as automatic admission of keeping a vicious dog. This was in a hunter's forum though and not from an attorney, so I'll just consider that to be someone's personal opinion.

Technically the fence does belong to the homeowner. However the CC&Rs includes a section stating that fences along the common areas must be maintained by the homeowner and cannot be removed or modified without ACC approval.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

DwightT - Are you trying to find a way to make an exception. If so, why? Your cc&r states "No sign of any kind shall be displayed to public view". Stress on the words, "of any kind". Even if the sign is aesthetically appealing, if it's in public view, the cc&r is clear, IMHO your opening up a can of worms. That's how these things happen. You let one owner do one thing outside of the rules and guess what, you loose the ability to enforce others, regardless as to the good intent to be neighborly, nice, or popular.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I agree with Gerald.

It seems to me the board has 2 options:

1) Send a notification to the homeowner reminding him/her that the CC&Rs prohibit any signage (include the text from the CC&R), and request it's immediate removal.

OR

2) Draft an amendment to the CC&Rs allowing for certain specific types of signage, which may or may not include "beware of dog" signs, which will then make such a sign "legal" and STILL send a notification to the homeowner reminding him/her that the CC&Rs prohibit any signage (include the text from the CC&R), and request it's immediate removal until the amendment is in place.

However, in either case, the sign is a clear violation of the current CC&Rs so even if you plan to amend, you would still need to move forward on requesting compliance of the current CC&Rs.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

i will weigh in to support some of the good ideas expressed: first, find out if the owners have been required to post the sign. If a city/state agency has required it, then the board really should allow it (note the exemption in the minutes, and work to change the rules to allow for such public safety WHEN REQUIRED BY LAW signage). the board does not want to tell them to take down a sign that some LEA required (while possibly legal to deny the sign, it will eventually cause Public Relations problems somewhere). Work with the owners and the agencies.

If it's not required by law, then enforce your ordinances, and tell the owners to remove the sign.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Has any thought been given to the fact that control of the dog is the owners responsibility, not the associations. It appears the board would be placing themselves in a bad position if they allow the sign to be put up anywhere. The owner of the dog knew of his responsibility when for some reason he put up the sign. Obviously the owner feels the dog is a threat so he wants to have the association assume some responsibility for the animal. The association may become involved if the animal poses some threat to humans, but as far as working with an owner to try and keep the dog from biting someone doesn't seem proper, or to warn owners that they should be careful walking on their own common property is way out of line.
Does the Board put up signs when there is a student driver in the neighjborhood, "Caution. this area presents a hazzard to all members until Mr. Jones son learns to drive a car properly."

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

I didn't check the forum over the weekend, so I'm just now getting back to this. I probably didn't do a very good job of explaining my thoughts before. The sign that the homeowner currently has on the fence is absolutely a violation of the CC&Rs. They will be told that that sign must be removed. Our concerns were if 1) what to do if the homeowner had been instructed to post a sign by some city/county agency, and 2) if our telling the homeowner to remove the sign could make the HOA liable if the dog did bite somebody (say a child poking a finger through an opening in the fence). The suggestion of allowing a more discreet sign to be placed in the yard was a way to deal with 1). Remember that CC&Rs do not trump city/county/state/... laws, so allowing a reasonable sign in the back yard should satisfy that requirement (if it exists) while still meeting the CC&R requirements.

I also just spoke with our insurance agent about 2). While there is no way to predict how a jury would actually decide in that sort of situation, if the homeowner did try to shift liability to the HOA for not letting him post the sign, more than likely we would just get a summary judgment releasing us from the case since as was noted, ultimately the dog's actions are the responsibility of the homeowner, regardless of if they have a sign posted or not.

So we will be telling them to remove the sign. The alternative suggestions will only come up if they show us that they have been required to post a warning.

Thanks again for the comments.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

My neighbor has a sign that says: BEWARE OF DOG. She doesn't have a dog. She thought it was more effective than: No Trespassing.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

AnnaD2,

In some sense it probably will or has deterred people from entering her property, however, a sign is still a sign especially “If” your covenants don’t permit them to be displayed within your community. Apparently not the case in your association, though or just not enforced?

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Sorry Chuck---I should have been more specific. It' NOT in my condo association. It's a neighbor's house, on the street behind us. BUT one of the owners in our condo has a sign in her window that reads: BEWARE OF VICIOUS HAIRDRESSER. Classy, isn't it? It will be addressed at our next meeting---we don't allow signs either.

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