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AB3 (Arizona)
Posts: 44
Posted:
I'm new to my hoa board and don't think that the board acted in the best interest of the community on some issues. I'm not the only homeowners that feels this way. The only conclusion I can come to is the previous board took complaints from the homeowners as a personal attack. Here is the situation.

We move at snails pace on some issues and others seem to get done so fast nobody has time to get the information in the mail.

It took 1 year to submit 2 sets of 2 paint colors for the members to vote on. Because the vote was too close to call it took another year to present the winner. I don't get it either. Can the board go against how the majority of the membership voted?

Anyway, if the membership has to vote on the colors then doesn't the entire membership have to vote on how those colors are or aren't used?

Requests to paint a minor hard to see trim in the darker of the two approved colors were made they got denied without explaination other than cuz we said so. They grandfathered in the old color for those that painted in the 2 years it took to determine the colors that won. Another owner made a simaliar request at the annual meeting the board said it would not discuss the topic. The homeowner asked "can't the board change it's mind" the answer was "No". Did they prevented him from being heard AND prevented the members from voting. Is that acting in the best interest of the community and border line abuse of power?

Isn't the boards power to make decisions regarding the aesthetics of the community more so related maintenance, landscaping, and building maintenance? Is it possible this is a loop hole? We are all adults and people keep their homes well maintained. By changing our colors we created an eye sore. Plus one of the homes was painted the wrong color just before it was sold. It has been the wrong color for years. It will also most likely remain the wrong color until it needs to be painted due to aging not because it is the wrong color. Yet the board refuses to let people paint a hard to see portion of their home in the darker approved color. It doesn't make sense.

Do the bylaws and CCR's have to specifically state what the board must obtain membership vote on how the homes are painted?

How the board can make rules restricting what the owners can and can't do without board approval. Yet the boards authority to act without membership approval just gets broader and broader.

I believe that board members are the ones that are carrying out the wishes of the owners. However, how can that occur when they don't know what the majority of the owners want? They want the homeowners to get more involved but they will not do anything to encourage them to get involved. I've never seen them survey the owners they only do maybe 2 social events a year. Where is the compromise?

As an officer and owner what do I need to do to place limitaions on the boards power to act without obtaining a vote of the entire membership? Is there something somewhere that I'm not seeing or information I'm missing here or am I just stupid.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
AB3,
First of all, you are not stupid. Having enough sense and smarts to ask all of these questions eliminates being stupid.

So answer these questions please. What is the situation for your association. Are you condos or stand alone homes. Who pays for the painting? Is it the association or each homeowner? How many units are there.

Just as a normal occurance, a Board when they are responsible for a color selection for all of the units, will normally have a committee that does the color search and presents that to the Board who in the end, has the right to decide what color you will get. But we know what your situation is .
AB3 (Arizona)
Posts: 44
Posted:
We a zero lot line planned housing community. We are a small with 225 homes. The homeowners pay for their home to be painted but the common grounds are the associations responsibility. By association it means each owners pays their share of the costs which is included in the dues. Correct?

How many years of information should I have expected to get when we elected who would hold what office? I've read 2 years of minutes and financials but they only gave us January 2008's information. The person keeping track of the violations got all the information she needed within days. When I requested the information needed to review, research, and prepare for the next meeting. Which takes a lot of time not just the 2 hours a month management tells us it requires. I was told I would get it at the monthly meeting. How can I be expected to be prepared for that meeting if I don't have all the information nessasary? I haven't even been on the board a month and am already frustrated with the lack of cooperation. Then I was told I had to copy the pres. on all e-mails between myself and the property management company. Why? As long as I have copies of them and as an officer I have a need for the information.

Anyone willing to accept the nomination gets on the board and no vote isn't nessasary. We have a large number of part time residences.

When I say things move at a snails pace here's an example. We were supposed to begin painting the common area in Dec. 07 it just started. However, a decision to do major renovations made Nov. 07 which is already underway. The structure is sound and really doesn't need renovations just a really good cleaning and a few repairs. The doors aren't kept closed so it will just end up in the same condition.

There was a social mentioned in minutes which got postponed. There hasn't been any mention of it in the newsletter. The dates of the monthly meetings for 3 months but never the location. It is always held at same home from what a member told me that resigned sometime in 07. It seems so shady to me and I can't think of one valid reason why.

I always thought the board was supposed to act on the wishes of the majority.

I realize this is more information than you requested. I just feel like I'm getting stone walled.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
To answer your original question of how to change a prior Board's decision; you would make a motion, have it seconded (if your Board requires a second) and vote on it. It may then be passed and would go into effect. Now not all things can be undone, for example contracts that have been signed but a paint color IMO certainly could be changed in this way.

As far as to why your BOD seems to move so slowly and other things you have raised, IMO you would be better off to go out to lunch with a couple of your fellow Board members and ask them in a non confrontational or accusatory manor why things are done in the way they are. You may find there are valid reasons for why things are done in this manor or you may find people who like you want to change the way things are done.

As far as doing what the majority want; you are there to do what is in the best interest of the community. Now the two things are not always mutually exclusive but they can be and you have to sometimes be willing to go against the majority.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AB3 (Arizona)
Posts: 44
Posted:
I guess I don't understand how one can go against the majority. When in the current situation has occurred because the board hasn't will not take the time to educate themselves on issues. They are seeking advice but don't do the research themselves to determine if the information or advice is the only or best way to fix the problem.

For instance, our dog had developed this large tumor on his rear. The vet told me the only option we had was to cut it out which would cause him to loose control over his recum. I was not going to do the surgery and have him poop all over the house or treat him like a baby. Quality of life issue. But I did my research and found surgery isn't the only option. There are medications which have a very high success rate. So I got out the phone book and called every vet in town and asked one question. Is surgery the only option. I did this until I found one that said no it isn't the only option. That vet treated him for 3 weeks with no results then sent me to a specialist. The specialist took one look at him and said that looks like something totally diffrent than what we were told it was. They look almost identical. He is 14 happy and healthy.

Had I not done my research I would have lost him. Uneducated board members are incapable of making good decisions independently. For 2 years in a row by the end of the year only 2 of the original board members elected remained. All because a diffrence of opinon and allowing things to get personal and making decisions based on personal wants. Your opinion is just that an opinion, but becomes a fact when other people agree with you. Thus going against the majority isn't make decisions in the best interest of the community but based on your personal wants. Then again that is just my opinon based on the fact I do research issues or problems before seeking advice to make sure they know what they are talking about.

I got most of my info from previous members that served on the board recently. I also figured it out from analysising the financials and meeting minutes. I hope there is a good explaination for some of the things that are going on. However, you don't repeatedly mis-code admin. services in a rental account for the whole year by mistake. When the association has no monthly rental expenses.

I was hoping for a place to start to ensure the bylaws would get changed and eliminate the need for a board vote. If I were to get 1/3 vote to approve the motion does that ensure the bylaws are changed? Considering the board has ultimate and final say. Why would you not want to change the bylaws to require votes on issues and projects of x dollar amounts?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
What it takes to amend your documents varies from state to state and Association to Association but generally speaking requires it 75% of the members eligible to vote agreeing to the change. The exact method to amend yours should be somewhere in your documents.

It is the Boards responsibility to run the day to day operations of the Association and make the decisions. Our documents for instance allow them free reign in most areas but limit them to spending no more that $2,000.00 for capital improvements without homeowner approval.

Speaking to the majority I'm going quote (badly I'm sure) something I once read: "Left alone people will vote themselves candy and circuses." You as a BOD member have a moral and a fiduciary duty to do the right thing even if it is the unpopular thing. You must set the budget and reserves and if necessary raise the assessments to cover them. You'll seldom get a majority to vote for increasing the fees.

There was a poster here by the name of ChrisB4 who wanted to have the homeowners vote on everything; put his name in the search window of the topics page to find the reasons people gave for NOT doing that. Look at his early postings.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
AB3: I am concerned over your post. I remember also your other posts regarding paint colors and using the darker color on trim and lighter on unit. How has that progressed?

You state many concerns over how this Board is operating while you, yourself, are a Board member and are also entitled to cast your vote on issues. You are the one who is able to find the answer to your question, "Do the bylaws and CCR's have to specifically state what the board must obtain membership vote on how the homes are painted." As a homeowner and resident of your community you should have the official documents, CC&Rs. In these you will find everything you need to know pertaining to what the Board is allowed to do/not do, how to govern, etc. Further, as a Board member, you are in the best position to STUDY and LEARN the documents to assist in decisions with other Board members.

As Board members there should not be occasions when one member is to act independently from the rest of the group. You stated that you were asked to copy the President on your emails, but you did not feel it was necessary. I disagree emphatically! ...for the very reason stated in the first sentence of this paragraph. You must as a group learn to meet together, discuss and reason together and find solutions together. No, you will not all agree all the time, but you must strive for a united front ensuring members that you have the community's best interests at heart.

Your concerns over paint color are well taken. But, perhaps the real problem with this group is lack of communication among yourselves. The email is a perfect example.

Being on the Board is hard work. It is not for the thin-skinned and its not for those who want to create changes without regard to the rest of the Board-team. You state "As an officer and owner what do I need to do to place limitaions on the boards power to act without obtaining a vote of the entire membership?" Be careful what you ask for. YOU are the Board, you have the authority to make decisions. Yes, it is well to get the 'pulse' of the community in certain matters; and in financial matters, the Board most times is bound to take a member vote. But, the Board is the governing force with the official documents giving the authority to act.

We wish you well in fulfilling your desire to be an active Board member to the residents. Sit back, listen hard, study the docs, be approachable, and speak from your careful review and knowledge of the restrictions and guidelines (CC&Rs) for your community. You will gain the respect of your peers and the community and you will be in a better position to make changes.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
AB3, I have a couple of comments, and I mean them with all respect:

First, gathering together a packet of detail on past violations may be considerably easier than pulling together a packet containing 2 years worth of assorted and varied documents such as you requested.

You say that you have only been on the board for a month and you're dissatisfied with them not getting you all this information.

I can understand your frustration, however, some boards may keep their documents better organized/filed than others. Some BOARD MEMBERS may do a better job of keeping the documents for which they are responsible better organized/filed.

Not being in a position to turn them over in less than a month's time might be a signal of a disorganized board, but not necessarily a nefarious one.

The last time our treasurer position changed hands, it took us almost 6 months to get all the documents and files transferred that we needed transferred.

Again, frustrating, but these are not full-time, 9-5 held positions.

Yes, a secretary or management company should do a better job of organizing and keeping track of most board documents, but still, some just may not have a "packet" ready for turnover to new board members right out of the starting gate. They SHOULD, but many don't.

Next, the "majority" has no business running the day-to-day business of an association. As someone else mentioned, especially in situations where colors need to be approved, it's optimum to get a PULSE or a READING of some kind regarding what most of the people prefer, but in the end, this is one of the decisions that the Architectural Committee or the board is empowered to make on the behalf of the community.

And regarding why some things move faster than others, well, welcome to the world of ruling by committee. Some items find greater agreement among the members deciding, and, as a result, require less lead time and/or research time etc. Other items may require more internal "discussion" time, time required to lobby other board members or persuade the swing voters on the board. This will slow to a crawl when you add to that times when a quorum isn't met, meetings might get postponed, whatever.

So, again, that's just the nature of the beast.

Welcome to board directorship and in the end, I certainly hope that you get the opportunity to discover just how rewarding it can be, in spite of all the frustrations!

AB3 (Arizona)
Posts: 44
Posted:
I'm not saying that we should vote on everything. I think more should be done to obtain owners opinions and those opinions should be followed.

The info. we are asking for isn't anything more than just pressing a couple of buttons and printing it out. Make one copy then use the copier for the others. The receptionist can do that. I can put it into a binder.

Then any missign info can be questioned. The treasurer can't do the monthly financial report if the information isn't provided before the next meeting. But, I guess it is what it is.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AB3 on 03/05/2008 8:01 PM
I'm not saying that we should vote on everything. I think more should be done to obtain owners opinions and those opinions should be followed.


AB we periodically send out an anonymous community questionnaire of about 40 questions asking about everything from improving/changing recreational equipment, building safety, fine amounts, etc. Most were answerable with yes/no answers or check boxes; along with places for more detailed answers if they wished and a self addressed stamped envelope. We got about a 50% reply from the last one but it gave the board a good feel of the pulse of the community. We also collated the results and printed them in the newsletter.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Quote:
more should be done to obtain owners opinions and those opinions should be followed.

we periodically send out an anonymous community questionnaire of about 40 questions asking about everything from improving/changing recreational equipment, building safety, fine amounts, etc.

Sorry to be so dense here, but what all questions?
We have a tiny, almost unused park and a few green areas. Lots of rules and regs, lots of arc control, lots of fines, etc. Owner apathy, etc.
What are your questions?
Can we generate a list?
Maybe in cases like ours, the only question should be "What would you like to see changed?"
Thanks
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Of course the questions were specific to our community but here are a few, the rest of the questions were specific to the company doing our reserve study.
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Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
AB3: You have recd much good info to your questions. Now with you as a Board member, you are in the best position to present your best self to the community. When you state that "more should be done to obtain owners opinions and those opinions should be followed", what do you think the 'more' should be? Should there be questionnaires or surveys, as one poster suggested; should there be a hand-vote on issues before Board decisions are made; should there be surveys sent out to gain an insight into community pros and cons?

The Board is the elected group by the membership. It is well that you want to have input from homeowners for issues on which the Board must make a decision. Be careful, though. To be a good Board member, one cannot be all things to all people and seek to have resident approval for everything. You will burn out in no time and vow never to be a Board member or be on a committee again!!!

Rather, as a Board member, and in order to get a 'feel' for what the community wants, needs or desires, just take casual strolls around your community neighborhood. You will not go far before you will be approached and made to listen to all types of concerns. It is not for you to offer a 'street decision' though; the issue/s need to come before the Board as a unit.

But, to be approachable is important--also to be a good listener, to be an active and effective decision-maker--all done for the overall good of the community as a whole. Good Luck to you!

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