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JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Initial interviews have been done by the president, and several interviews with two other board members have been scheduled.
Should the president discuss his findings with the others, ie his 1,2,3rd choices, and why, before the others meet with the prospects?

Two board members have longer terms than a third, but all 3 want to be part of that interview process. Seems that the 2 who have the longest terms remaining should interview, but that's not necessarily so. Suggestions?

Only 2 at a time can meet with a prospect, so the plan is to have 2 meet with some, and the other 2 meet with others. (ab, bc, ac,) Then results discussed.

Since the president will be the one working closest with the mc, should not he make the final decision if there is not a clear choice, even if it is not one of the others' choice?

Though the president had not named our mc to any prospect, during an interview, a prospect offered information regarding our present management person and company that was not known to us previously. (He knew it because a former employee was now working for them)
He said that he expected our mc to be out of business soon, that his company had just been hired by 3 of their former clients, and he knew of at least one other hoa that just left them.
His "out of business soon" was responded to by the question, "Two years or less?" The prospect's ressponse was he didn't think they would be in business 5-6 months from now. That's important because though 4 members are in agreement to change management company, it's still not definite, or how many more "events" they want to take place first.
He offered other information, too, that would help our board decide on a course and possibly speed of action.
Should the president inform the other board members of this before the coming interviews or after, and should he tell which prospect offered the info so the board members could ask more questions of that prospect?
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JC3 - Your post evidences why it is so important that interviews be conducted with a minimum of a quorum of the board, if not the entire board present at one time. You state, "only 2 at a time can meet with a prospect...". Why?? What document restricts the number that can meet with a prospect?? Unless a vote to change management requires a vote of owners, and not just board members, all board members should vote on the prospect and a vote in most cases requires the meeting to be open to all owners. The decision to hire a new management company might be made in advance but ratification most likely requires the formality of an open meeting to the membership.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
I disagree: Initial interviews do not need to be part of the public process, and maybe not the secondary interviews.
We did not want a quorum because we did not want this part--the possibility of change--to be public yet. Only 2 members because we did not want a quorum. The other members had already decided they did NOT want extra board meetings and were emphatic about it.
All board members will vote on both the decision and the candidates in an open meeting.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JC3 - Read my post to you again. I did not say that interviews should be public to the entire membership. I stated, "...interviews be conducted with a minimum of a quorum of the board, if not the entire board present at one time." Stress on the word board, not public process.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
If we have a quorum, we are required to post notice and have a meeting, whether public (open) or not, executive. We have to follow open meeting laws, and the board already decided against that.
So no quorum, no meeting, no public. At decision time, then we have the open meeting.

What about the other questions?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

JC,
Interviewing a M.C. is really a very difficult task. This is the person who MUST get along with all of the individual Board members, have great commuication skills and must be able to follow instructions. This person will be the eyes and ears of the Board so they also must be a rational person who can validate issues of concern.

I would not let the President give his impressions at this time until all of the Board members have done their interviews. He might be slanted or perhaps he sees or doesn't see something worth relaying to the other Board members.

As for the other information relayed to your present management rep, I would not pay any attention to that. It might just be hearsay and possibly not all true or even somewhat slanderous and of what purpose does it serve. It almost seems gossipy. Let the credentials speak for hiring a new M.C. Obviously there is something wrong with the current one if you are doing interviews now.

JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Thanks, Donna.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JC3 - You aren't following what I've stated at all. On to the next topic, typically when binding votes are needed to be taken by a board, an open meeting is required. Seems you grasp that. However, a board can typically meet in executive session such as your interview process without the need for an open meeting. Some boards open all meetings, regardless as to what type. If there is something that is private, such as an owner's financial affairs, or a pending legal matter, the board will close the open meeting for executive session, and open it up again after the matter is resolved.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Hey Gerald,

I tried to remember if any of my associations ever has a meeting that would be open at all to the membership in regards to hiring a new M.C. and they never have done that. I think that hiring of a M.C or any other employee of the association would strictly be Board business and therefore considered non meeting business. Just my opinion. I am asking why this would be considered a binding vote? Just curious to know. I believe that the Board should be required to make a statement at a Board meeting, saying that so and so M.C is now working for the association.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeraldT4
typically when binding votes are needed to be taken by a board, an open meeting is required. Seems you grasp that.

yes.

Quote:
However, a board can typically meet in executive session such as your interview process without the need for an open meeting.

No. ALL meetings, open and closed, are required by law to be posted, time, place, date, and in a certain timeframe. The board members resoundingly said no to that. This is a result.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:

If the bylaws or other documents give the Board the power to hire and fire the MC, then that's it. General membership input is not needed.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
JC3: I am always amazed at how thorough you are and want to be while trying to maintain transparency to the membership. But, don't bring onto yourself
more problems where none need to occur.

A management company is to serve the Board on behalf of the Association. Thus, it is the Board who signs the contract with the management company, and it is the Board who decides what role they shall play to assist them in managing the community overall.

To present info on a new mgmt. company to the membership is fine once the Board has done its homework, completed all the due diligence with interviews, price comparisons, and signed the contract. Yes, the membership will want to know who their new mgmt. company contact is for when they have questions/concerns, and yes, the mgmt. company should always show an 'approachable manner' with residents.

But, membership does not need to be brought into the actual process of how one
secures the 'right' mgmt. company or signing with one. You are on the Board with other members; you have the right questions, you have the smarts and willingness to look at the positives/negatives of each company interviewed. Don't second guess yourself. Trust your instincts and you'll be fine. There are only so many Advils or Aleves one can take...

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
DonnaS - Nowhere did I state that a meeting should be open for a board to decide on the MC, so don't want you to get that impression. However, it is my opinion that a board must vote on the MC, a decision that requires formal ratification to the membership. Perhaps one of the most important formal decisions a board can make regarding who manages the association. Decisions that require ratification more often than not, if not all the time, must be voted upon in an open meeting. That's what I'm saying. Not that the board has to invite everyone in on the interview process. That could be a disaster. In regards to JC3 I believe that the board should meet as one group with the prospects being interviewed. Otherwise it is a meeting of sorts of less than a quorum of the board, and to be quite frank, kind of an odd way of doing things. Unless of course conflicting schedules are the reason.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JC3 - Seems you're reading into what I've stated. A board CAN typically meet in executive session. I never discussed what the posting requirements are, and you seem to be arguing against yourself on that one. I honestly assumed you would know that for your state, for your bylaws. My board must send notice of all meetings to 2 newspapers, post once a year the regularly scheduled open meetings and when the board plans on meeting in executive session, and post agendas, etc. according to state laws, and our by-laws. There are times however that our board may need to meet on an emergency or timing is of the essence basis. It is impossible to expect they provide an agenda to the membership, or post something prominently, or provide notice to 2 newspapers 48 hours in advance (as our laws require), when something needs an immediate board decision.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
PaulM - who said membership needs to be brought into the actual process and sight that statement.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Gerald,
No, I did not question what you stated, I was just wondering if you thought that the M.C. decision should be done at an open meeting. I think that you think that it should and I think that it should not. No arguement coming from me here. I totally agree with your opinion below.

" Not that the board has to invite everyone in on the interview process. That could be a disaster. In regards to JC3 I believe that the board should meet as one group with the prospects being interviewed. Otherwise it is a meeting of sorts of less than a quorum of the board, and to be quite frank, kind of an odd way of doing things. Unless of course conflicting schedules are the reason. "

Being a Board member, you know how hard it is sometimes to get in sync with other members so sometimes with a time constraint, we have to take extraordinary steps to run our associations. I work as well as my other 4 BODs.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
DonnaS - The interview can and should happen in executive session. If the association is such that the board members choose to open that executive session to the community, provide an agenda of that interview meeting, etc. than so be it, that's their choice. However, I believe 100% that the decision of THE BOARD ratifying an MC should be placed in an agenda, the agenda should be posted and all that good stuff, and the entire membership should have access to that agenda to attend the meeting. Why do I believe this you ask? To hear their elected officials vote formally on the new MC, and in an open owner forum session have the opportunity to ask all questions to the board. For example, because it will affect them in communication, who handles what, who to contact in the case of an emergency, the list goes on, and on, and on. I'll even go as far as saying that the board should provide an inquiry to the entire membership seeking their input on the role of management, what they would like to see improved. And oh, novel idea, how about inquiring about it before the interview process, rather than after. Anyone on a Board that does not agree with communication to owners, owner inclusiveness, and all that good stuff needs to look at their method of governing to the lowest acceptable standard as the primary reason for apathy.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I'm confused. And I'm also thinking that everyone is actually in "violent agreement."

However, I'm also guessing that maybe everyone is missing JC3's point: He may be aware that the public does not have to be invited to each and every meeting, especially not executive sessions, however, his claim is that ANY time there is a quorum, the board MUST announce (make public) the date, time, location AND PURPOSE of the meeting, and, if I'm reading this correctly, this is exactly what they DON'T want to do: Tip their hand that they are intending to change MCs.

JC3 said: " We did not want a quorum because we did not want this part--the possibility of change--to be public yet. "

So whether any members would or could show up or not appears to be less of a driving force behind the decision of purposely not meeting as a quorum than the fact of what the meeting/executive session is about.

But, I still would not disclose any of my notes/input prior to any others on the board meeting/interviewing with the candidates.

I also do not think the president's notes/opinions/chemistry, whatever, should carry any greater weight than any of the others who interview.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JC3 - MicheleD's post hit upon something that I did not think of. Yes, in the case of trying to switch management I do understand the need for privacy with the intent of protecting the association. In that way I could understand why you may Think you have to conduct interviews with less of a quorum of the board. But that decision to hold interview meetings with just 2 board members was made By The Board, i.e. Quorum of the Board!!! Your words, "We have to follow open meeting laws, and the board already decided against that. So no quorum, no meeting, no public. At decision time, then we have the open meeting.". How did your board "resoundingly" decide against it? At a board meeting, with a board quorum, via email, were there minutes, will there be? I'm still unsure why it is, or what document is guiding your belief that that a quorum of the board meeting requires it be open to everyone?

My reason for thinking that it's best if your board meet with all the board members is so there is no here-say, everyone has a set list of questions, etc.

You asked, since the president will be the one working closest with the mc, should not he make the final decision if there is not a clear choice, even if it is not one of the others' choice? NO. All board members should make a final decision and whichever way it goes, it goes.

What role do you play if any on the board, or in your association? Are you the president of the board? If you are a board member, you are writing about yourself in the third person. For example, you wrote, "Two board members have longer terms than a third, but all 3 want to be part of that interview process. Seems that the 2 who have the longest terms remaining should interview, but that's not necessarily so. Suggestions? Only 2 at a time can meet with a prospect, so the plan is to have 2 meet with some, and the other 2 meet with others. (ab, bc, ac,) Then results discussed."

Regarding this "other information" that a prospect offered the president, you wrote, "Should the president inform the other board members of this before the coming interviews or after, and should he tell which prospect offered the info so the board members could ask more questions of that prospect?" How did you find this information out if your not on the board? Is the interview process already over, has a prospect already been chosen?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
SusanW1 said: The key is whether or not "business" is conducted. That constitutes a "meeting." Gathering around a broken water tank is not a meeting, it is an inspection or viewing. No decision has been made, if is information gathering.

Your Board may have other means to make a decision. "A Meeting Without A Meeting" is allowed for our Association. But that is for emergency decisions only, and is ratified at the next meeting.

{{snip}}
-----------------------------------

I pilfered this from another thread, but felt it possibly appropriate here as well.

Since simply the "coming together of people in one place" does not in and of itself constitute a "meeting" in the "open meetings" sense, then I see no reason why all the board cannot interview prospective MCs without violating the open meetings notification as it is merely information gathering and in no way conducting business.

It would seem to me.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 03/01/2008 5:39 PM
i thought...a meeting was when a quorum of the board gathered to discuss topics that were on the agenda for a meeting (or something like that). So, your gathering of members had to be a quorum, had to be discussing HOA business, and that business had to be part of a future meeting agenda. If that's the right memory, then your board may be off the hook for one of the reasons or another (typically, quorum)

You are saying that
the gathering of members had to be a quorum,
had to be discussing HOA business,
and that business had to be part of a future meeting agenda.
If that's the right memory, then your board may be off the hook for one of the reasons or another

I just don't see that. If we have a quorum and are discussing hoa business, that's a meeting, and required to be posted. Don't mean to be dense here, but that's the way I understand the law.

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