Uses of a HOA ClubHouse

Started by AlexL1 • 21 replies • 5225 views

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AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305

Posted:

I was checking the archives but could not find out specifically as to what is NOT CONSIDERED appropriate use of a clubhouse. If a homeowner wants to "rent" the clubHouse,

a) Does a renter have the right? I ask this because if something goes wrong, who does the HOA BOD go after? the renter or the owner? and if the agreement was with the Renter and NOT the owner, how can the Owner be held responsible?

b) What if a HOA member wants to rent the ClubHouse to hold religious meetings? Have BINGO sessions? etc

c) Where does it stop?

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

that's why you need a policy on renting.

In general, IMO, no to renters. Unless you have some form of security worthy of the potential damages.

IMO, you can allow anything in a clubhouse the HOA wants to allow, or disallow anything the HOA wants to disallow. But, you better have a policy in writing somewhere that deliniates it.

Technically, you are NOT a government body, so you can discriminate more freely than cities, etc. can do. However, it is a fine fence to walk, so be careful.

LaverneB (Florida)
Posts: 129

Posted:

We do not rent our clubhouse out for anything. For insurance purpose the biggest reason. Also we hold no religious meetings. No private parties. If you want we can have a party as a homw owner but must invite the whole community

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

In our HOA, the renter must get permission from the homeowner before he or she can rent and the homeowner must be in good standing with payment of montly maintenance fees before it's allowed. Same thing with using the community pool.

If there are damages to the clubhouse, the homeowner will be held responsible (this is also written on the rental agreeement which the homeowner and renter must sign).

I've never heard the question about religious meetings or bingo (or other gambling), although it's a good one - think I'll put that question to OUR board. Recently, I learned the clubhouse used to have a liquor license that created all types of trouble before it was finally ditched.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Laverne,

Remember a couple of years ago when a bunch of residents in St. Lucie County got in big trouble because some of them were having Sunday morning religeous services in their clubhouse? Oh boy, the stuff hit the fan by some of the other residents who did not want or think that it was legal to use the clubhouse for any religeous activities. It went to court. I don't remember the outcome. Do you? But whats to say that a Baptism or some other activity cannot use the clubhouse if it is rented out? Why would other residents complain, after all, it is income for the membership.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

AlexL1 - Does a renter have the right to use the clubhouse? Depends on what rights the renter is given in your governing documents. In my HOA the renter is considered an association member (resides in the community). The renter can use the common elements just like the owner can. The renter can not vote, that's all. If it's not specified in your docs. than you're not restricted from permitting renters to use the space. I don't know why you would want to restrict them. It's income, and use of the elements in exchange for their paying rent and keeping the unit occupied is only fair, don't you think?

AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305

Posted:

GeraldT4:\

Just thinking aloud... I personally feel that a renter should NOT be allowed to be the official "renter of the clubhouse... if something goes wrong, how can the HOA hold that renter responsible?

Another potential problem could be the pool. If a party is held and most of the invitees are from OUTSIDE the compound, why should they be allowed to use the pool? when the pool is for the official residents? Also.. if the party was large enough and was allowed to go t the pool, what would the regular members think who are out there enjoying the pool? (Just thinking aloud).

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

AlexL1 - Either the governing documents allow the renter (someone residing in the association perhaps considered an associate member) the right to use the common elements the same as an owner or they do not. I agree with you there is a contractual dilemma of fault in the event of something going wrong. But the association, just like any other renter violation, can go after the owner for damages. Let the owner take it up with the renter. See where I'm now going with this? If I was the association, I'd permit the use of the clubhouse to the renter, if the owner takes full responsibility. The contract, just like a violation letter of a renter abuse, should be sent to the owner.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Alex,
I do understand your concern but when you rent out your unit, the owner relinquishes all rights to use the amenities and that would also be the clubhouse.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

Hi DonnaS - The owner might relinquish the rights to use of the amenities but that must transfer to the renter, correct?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Whenever I sign a lease with a new tenant, our documents have a very clear statement that the owner upon signing a lease, relinquishes his rights to use of the common elements and amenities.. I have to turn over the clubhouse keys and can only attend social functions as a "Guest". But as an owner, I can attend all Board meetings.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

DonnaS - So you rent out your unit and don't offer the tenant the ability to do anything but live in the unit? No use of amenities, parking, etc.?

AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305

Posted:

GeraldT4
I notice that some mention(as you) that the use of the clubhouse generates INCOME (or words to that effect).... It was my assumption that by renting out/etc the club house, it was not allowed (persae) to generate income because the clubhouse is to be used FREE to HOA members... it is theirs to use just as with the swimming pool. (of course, money must or should be obtained to have it cleaned but just to pay the cleaning crew and not as another means of generating income).

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

AlexL1 - Renting out the clubhouse will exclude others use. It is the exclusive use of the clubhouse, and the cost of exclusive use that an association has to decide it determine and will tolerate. What I am asking DonnaS is the exclusion of a renters use of the amenities. If a renter is not permitted to use the amenities, even if the agreement is first made with the owner and the owner calls the renter advising they are permitted to use the amenity, I find it would be hard to attract renters. To me the exclusion of the amenities seems illogical.

AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305

Posted:

Actually.. to get back on track.. The main point of my question was...... Are there "established" restrictions for the use of a club house in an HOA Organization. Yes, rules can be established.... written, etc but prior to doing that, can it be written that NO religious services to be held........ No bingo ....... no use by investment individuals to talk to individuals for purposes of getting them to sign up for investments, etc etc. The Board can establish rules but if one of the rules is: The Clubhouse cannot be used for a political gathering....... whereas, in reality(for example) it legally can be.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Gerald,
No, I said that upon signing the lease, I give up use of all amenities and common areas and the Tenant then has full use of the amenities, not me.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 02/27/2008 7:22 AM

Gerald,
No, I said that upon signing the lease, I give up use of all amenities and common areas and the Tenant then has full use of the amenities, not me.

DonnaS,

You wrote, "Whenever I sign a lease with a new tenant, our documents have a very clear statement that the owner upon signing a lease, relinquishes his rights to use of the common elements and amenities.. I have to turn over the clubhouse keys and can only attend social functions as a "Guest". But as an owner, I can attend all Board meetings."

Hence my question and your clarification above that the Tenant then has the full use of the amenities, not you.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Okay Gerald,
I'm back in line with RobertR to get new glasses. Thanks for pointing it out.

BruceD (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

We are currently looking at the same issue, can a renter rent the clubhouse. One of the questions is whether your liability insurance will cover such use. We have not gotten an answer on this as of this date. The fact that our recourse is against the owner, not the renter, is also an issue. We are thinking of getting the owner's agreement before letting the renter use the clubhouse, such agreement would have to be in writing.

We do not allow the renter of the clubhouse to use the pool, or the exercise room.

AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305

Posted:

Many questions remain unanswered... that one you mentioned... liability insurance... Does the liability insurance cover the rental even if it is to a homeowner... even if it is a homeowner hosting the "event", non hoa members will be present so that is why I am concerned about the liabity insurance.

Also, I cannot get a handle on what types of events are NOT allowed.. someone mentioned no religious events... Right or wrong, why not? (even though I am opposed to having religious events).... One of the major problems also is that of parking..... If a condo owner hosts and invites x number of people, where re they going to park? in other condo owner's parking places?

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

alex, there should be no legal reason you cannot allow religious use of your clubhouse, as long as you have a policy that your board or homeowners have approved. You are not a government organization, you are a private business.

However, you should have a policy, and it should be very clear on what groups you do allow, etc.. Remember that once you open that barn door, it can be difficult (but not impossible) to close it. That advice isn't simply for religious groups, it applies to all choices your policy will make: think them through carefully, and remember that the more time you put into it creating it now, the less time you will put into defending it later.

AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305

Posted:

Great comments !!! I agree that first(probably first) is to have a policy for the use which is not easy to formulate. Has anyone in this group seen a policy that might be drawn from that we could use?

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