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BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
My HOA / PMC doesn’t post meeting minutes. Texas Property Code 209.005 says that they need to keep 7 years of minutes and financial records. And I know I can request copies of (or the ability to inspect) these records, and even take them to Justice Court if they don’t hand them over. But - what happens if they simply say “sorry, we somehow lost these records and can’t provide them to you”? I have reason to believe this is true for multiple records. I’ve looked through the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure, and while they discuss compelling production of records in the case that the HOA simply doesn’t want to produce the records, they don’t discuss the HOA not properly *keeping* these records.

In short: what happens if they claim their dog ate their records? Is there any kind of penalty?

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I'll relate a true story. The Secretary, in order to save physical space, was digitizing the records. Once the digitized record was verified, the Secretary shredded the paper copy. Unfortunately, prior to making a backup of the digital records, their hard drive crashed and all records were lost. What records the Association was able to put together came from personal records of prior Directors.

In my previous Association, the secretary asked the board for permission to go through the records and dispose of anything more than x (I don't know the exact number) years old, again to save physical space. The Board approved the request. The year after the records were disposed of, a new Director pointed out that the applicable corporate law specifies that minutes need to be kept forever. Again, some records were able to be recreated from personal files of past Directors.

What I'm saying is that people are human and things happen that shouldn't. Nobody wants 4 or 5 boxes of files being stored in their house that may or may not always be in the way. Realistically, few people make regular backups of data until they actually lost data.

What would happen in court?

Minutes document the actions of the board. Without those minutes, the Association would be in a you say, I say situation making it harder for them to win a case where minutes were needed.

In your situation, the Court would likely scold them for not keeping minutes. You may or may not be able to win reasonable attorney fees and court costs. The court could rule that any major decision was invalid as there is no proof things were done correctly. The court may rule that the Association is no longer a legal entity (Association, Inc.) which could cause more headaches for the individual members.

What is it you actually want to achieve?
It is possible that there is a better way than the courts to achieve it.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Are you saying it could make my HOA go away forever? Don’t tease me like that!!!

Believe it or not, I really just want the HOA to run itself honestly and lawfully, in the best interest of the people who live in the neighborhood. But all I’ve seen in the past several years I’ve been involved with it is dishonesty, power-tripping, fiscal irresponsibility, and just plain incompetence.

Sincerely,

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Keep in mind that the "Association" is created by the CC&Rs.

The Corporation, a legal entity, is created by the States Corporation Commission.

If the legal entity was removed, it would be similar to being administratively dissolved for failing to file the annual report.
The Corporation no longer exists, but the Association does continue to exist.

If the corporation no longer existed, if something happened on the common area resulting in legal action, the only legal entities to bring that legal action against would be each individual owner (and a lawyer would have no issue having each owner served with legal action). Each owner would have to independently respond to the legal action vs. just having the Association deal with the issue.

That said, it appears that TX has a section of the corporate code dealing with unincorporated nonprofits (i.e. your Association). Therefore, the above example would not apply in TX. see: Chapter 252 of the Texas Business Organizations Code
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,335
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/18/2026, 2:27 PM

Keep in mind that the "Association" is created by the CC&Rs.

The Corporation, a legal entity, is created by the States Corporation Commission.

If the legal entity was removed, it would be similar to being administratively dissolved for failing to file the annual report.
The Corporation no longer exists, but the Association does continue to exist.

If the corporation no longer existed, if something happened on the common area resulting in legal action,

My understanding:

Regardless of how "corporate dissolution" starts, a corporate dissolution requires numerous steps. These steps are typically achieved over years. Typically a "dissolved corporation" can still lawfully be sued; can still sell off property (as part of its 'winding up of affairs'; still has a lawful board legally responsible for decision-making; and more.

Regarding not keeping Minutes and a refusal of a board to do so:

First the judge will inform the HOA attorney to "fix" his/her client. If the lawyer is dumb enough to refuse to advise the board to start keeping minutes, I see a judge appointing a receiver.

Of course an HOA attorney whose client (the HOA) is refusing to cooperate with the court (by doing as ordered by the court) is likely to resign as the HOA attorney. Mr. Trump (for one) can push the envelope in judicial proceedings but the typical HOA attorney has to put food on the table and is not going to risk achieving a bad reputation with a judge by refusing to follow the judge's orders or by putting up with a client who refuses to obey the court, especially on something as mundane and essential as keeping Minutes.

For any major decision not recorded in minutes, but with ample records (witnesses, say), and where no one objected promptly, I do not see a court ordering the decision to be reversed or somehow vacated. That would yield too much chaos.
MrTexaS1 (Texas)
Posts: 25
Posted:
BillD16 I'm also in a texas association dealing with a lot of problems and similar questions to you. I made a group but it wasn't strong enough and members of the group chickened out. So

1) I'm going to rebuild the group stronger and the HOA board is going to be getting all certified letters from our group signed by lots of people
2) We are going to meeting organized with pre-written questions and demands to say to all members and the board
3) We are going to demand all our rights under Texas law - examine records, audits, full minutes and record of decision on file, open board meetings, get permits for all construction work, expose and end retaliation, regular elections, and also we just learned that they have to share the owners list and email list of owners.
4) I'm seriously considering hiring an attorney to write all our letters and stuff. Especially if I can find a few members of our group to share the cost.
5) Our group is also going to draft up a full agenda of what we will do when our group members get on the board, new way of tracking maintenance, new rules, new parking policy, plus bylaws we are going to implement to end the things we don't like.
JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271
Posted:
good question, when I got on board, I got 2 board meeting minutes. Our HOA is 30 years old! Pretty sure there should of been at least 60 meeting minutes.
I asked all the known past presidents for records and each one claimed they passed the records on, with the latest president saying they got nothing! incompetent board and mgt companies.

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