Non residents

Started by MelodyL • 8 replies • 193 views

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MelodyL (California)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Are HOA will not allow non-residence to participate in any event due to liability issues. We had a craft fair schedule which got canceled because they were not going to allow the public to attend. Also various clubs and activity groups that will soon be closing down due to the fact, not enough residence are attending these clubs. An example is the travel club where they plan trips for everyone and of course, the more people that have signed up the cheaper it would be for a travel agent agency. This is a retirement community and people are either ill or have passed away and are not participating as they used to. We’ve tried to get the board to purchase liability insurance so we can allow the public in for various events, but they will not even consider it. We are located in California as our demographics in this community continue to age more and more activities may have to be discontinued. Any thoughts on how to convince the board to allow the public in for certain events? Guests are allowed and depending on the event or program they may charge a fee for the guest.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Melody,

I agree with your Board.

When the general public attends an event hosted by the Association, there are many things to consider:
Is the facility being used ADA compliant?
Are their the correct number of handicap parking spaces at the club house/pool/etc. as required by the ADA?
Will additional security be required?
What is the liability?

If you were serving on an HOA Board in 2011/2012 you were probably paying close attention to to a case in FL where, if you recall, a teenager was killed by a member of the neighborhood watch. The fact that the HOA published a simple article in their newsletter that if their is an issue that residents should first contact the police and then contact the neighborhood watch opened the Association up to litigation. Although the settlement is sealed, the expectation is that the HOA had to settle for over a million dollars. The whole incident resulted in the community being closely watched by the media, the dismantling of the neighborhood watch program for the development and, for a time, lower market value for the properties within the development.

Granted, the FL case does not directly relate to your situation. However, what happens if someone is injured on your trips? The Association could be held responsible to some degree.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Sorry, but an HOA board’s fiduciary duty is to serve the owners in the HOA, not society as a whole.

If you desire these type of public events, volunteer with you local park system as an organizer. ,

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

A craft fair would make sense to allow the public as it benefits the craft-makers in your community, as long as you limit the sellers to your residents. Even retirement homes near me have craft fairs where residents sell to visitors.

A wide open "travel club?" Nah. Blanket policies don't work.

Some - I said "some" - of these liability concerns are completely overblown in the practical sense. HOAs and "Concerned Residents" use them to stifle operations and ideas with which they disagree or don't wish to volunteer to host. The board should be willing to say, "We aren't willing to volunteer our labor as we do enough" rather that lean on perceived liability concerns.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 10/06/2025 12:40 PM

The board should be willing to say, "We aren't willing to volunteer our labor as we do enough" rather that lean on perceived liability concerns.

We actually did that when there were calls for a social committee.

We sent a survey asking the following questions:
1) should the Association form a social committee to plan, organize and run social events?
2) should the Association fund such a committee?
3) Would you be willing to serve on such a committee?

The Board said we don't have time and would need volunteers if the membership wanted this.

Responses were overwhelmingly no to all three questions.
Unanimous for questions 2 and 3
1 vote in favor of a committee on question 1.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 10/06/2025 12:40 PM
A craft fair would make sense to allow the public as it benefits the craft-makers in your community, as long as you limit the sellers to your residents. Even retirement homes near me have craft fairs where residents sell to visitors.

A wide open "travel club?" Nah. Blanket policies don't work.

Some - I said "some" - of these liability concerns are completely overblown in the practical sense. HOAs and "Concerned Residents" use them to stifle operations and ideas with which they disagree or don't wish to volunteer to host. The board should be willing to say, "We aren't willing to volunteer our labor as we do enough" rather that lean on perceived liability concerns.

<

It’s not that people disagree, it’s the purpose of the HOA is not a venue for public craft sales. If it is, I would like to sell used cars from the parking lots.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

One of our former attorneys would have told us the Sorry Saga of the Association that Held Sales Events Until An Attendee From Outside the Community Fell and Got Hurt on Common Elements, and Sued The Association - And the Association's Insurer Said "That's Commercial Activity, You're Not Insured For That" - And The Membership Got to Divvy Up The Large Settlement - And Wailing Commenced and the Blaming of the Board For Allowing the Membership to Do What They Wanted To Do, Isn't the Board Supposed to Protect People From Their Own Mistakes?!

This isn't fiction, by the way. The lawyer saw it happen a few times. It wasn't pretty any of those times. Curiously, none of the communities made this mistake twice, probably because they had no money to pay for social events and whatnot.

Everything is overblown until it happens to you, and then it's a totally predicitable event that any fool could have foreseen, and it's all the board's fault because it's always the board's fault.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 10/08/2025 10:18 AM
One of our former attorneys would have told us the Sorry Saga of the Association that Held Sales Events Until An Attendee From Outside the Community Fell and Got Hurt on Common Elements, and Sued The Association - And the Association's Insurer Said "That's Commercial Activity, You're Not Insured For That" - And The Membership Got to Divvy Up The Large Settlement - And Wailing Commenced and the Blaming of the Board For Allowing the Membership to Do What They Wanted To Do, Isn't the Board Supposed to Protect People From Their Own Mistakes?!

This isn't fiction, by the way. The lawyer saw it happen a few times. It wasn't pretty any of those times. Curiously, none of the communities made this mistake twice, probably because they had no money to pay for social events and whatnot.

Everything is overblown until it happens to you, and then it's a totally predicitable event that any fool could have foreseen, and it's all the board's fault because it's always the board's fault.

Cathy,

Under this account of the story the resident status of the injured party would not have had any effect on the denial. Commercial activity is commercial activity.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 10/08/2025 4:16 PM

Cathy,

Under this account of the story the resident status of the injured party would not have had any effect on the denial. Commercial activity is commercial activity.

You are correct.

One of the other points of the attorney's story was that sales events attract outsiders to the community. Some of these outsiders may be up to no good. For example, there is the Slip-and-Fall crowd who target things like yard sales in HOAs, because everybody knows HOAs are rolling in dough and good targets for a lawsuit. There are the folks who take the opporunity to case the joint and plan to visit potential targets later. Finally, there is often damage to the common areas as well: parking is often limited, so attendees park wherever they want, block streets and driveways, hit other objects, damage lawns, and generally cause turmoil.

So in addition to the uninsured injuries, the lawyer had also obverved an uptick in crime in communities that open their events to outsiders, plus added repair costs to the common areas (which probably were not budgeted for). These communities were not better off after holding these events - just the opposite.

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