DavidJ21 (Arizona)
Posts: 22
Posts: 22
Posted:
We are a Florida COA with 24 units and a history of lack of participation by homeowners. In the past, board members have often been off-site owners renting their units to either renters or family members. We had been a board of 2 since May 2024, with neither board member actively searching for a new 3rd board member. At a February 2025 meeting, two homeowners discussed the possibility of joining the board. One being myself, a prior board member and President, although never presiding over an annual election during my tenure. The other was a new resident I had been actively trying to recruit to join the board. Since the annual meeting was so close (April 2025), I thought it would be best to have an official election, as opposed to stepping up there on the spot at the February meeting. We hadn't had one since I moved here in 2017, and I thought it would be a good opportunity for board members to receive feedback through a voting process. We did discuss the possibility of online voting, but our property manager said it was cost-prohibitive to do it.
In April of 2025, we had the "annual meeting". There was no mailer ever sent for this election with an "intent to run" form and the proper COA protocol was not followed. At the time I was NOT aware of the proper timing of an annual meeting, myself having never conducted one, and was not aware of the "intent to run" protocol. However, I was familiar with the requirement of 14-day posting of which the property manager did not respect. She posted it just a few days before the meeting and this was documented. It should be NOTED that the agenda for the election stipulated "floor nominations for board members". In the prior year, our property manager also did not place proper notice for the annual meeting, which was also documented. I did notify one of the board members of this delinquency, but I DID not challenge it at the time.
Upon arriving at the board meeting in 2025 homeowners were met with a grumpy property manager and one board member. This board member in general, has NOT been involved in the process of being an actual board member and doesn't own a computer or use email. IMHO, he has been a body with the property manager and the President running the show. I was specifically prepared to challenge the meeting once it was called to order and our property manager validated proper notice, but we never got that far.
Instead, when I asked where the President was, she told us he wasn't feeling well and wouldn't be joining us. She then adjourned the meeting for lack of quorum, saying we didn't have the 51% necessary to establish a meeting quorum. She then also issued a sob-story about her own HOA not having an annual meeting in 10 years, as if it was our problem that she has a dysfunctional HOA. We have 24 members, and 5 members were present, with one more in route. I had a decent understanding of our bylaws and FS718 vs FS720, but not to the nuisance of the annual meeting requirements, so I did NOT challenge it on the spot, although I did look up FS718 requirements, and came across the 20% rule. I did push back about it and she reiterated that I was wrong and 51% was necessary. I left it be for the time bieng, assuming she knows better than me, although I was 95% sure I was right. She did allow us to have a discussion where we discussed the election process and the process of floor nominations were discussed. We also discussed FUTURE online voting possibility because of the lack of participation by homeowners.
After the meeting, I reviewed FS718 and felt very confident about the 20% rule so I emailed her. She again pushed back and challenged me. I wrote another email with specific sections of FS718 highlighted and I ALSO politely asked her when the Meeting Notice was posted to take the hint that I knew it wasn't posted properly with 14 days notice.
A few days later, we all got an email saying they made a mistake and that we had a 20% quorum and should have had the meeting. We were then to have a new meeting at a later date. Now keep in mind the President resides in the north in the summer, and I myself also migrate except my exact location is NEVER to be determined as I don't have a second home in the north and prefer to travel/rent/visit family etc. I did ask in a follow-up email if there would be another board meeting prior to the annual and she said she didn't know, but I knew by law we had to have a meeting. We never had another in Q2. I also knew that the one board member HAD NOT taken their mandatory training, neither the 90-day requirement from prior years, and we were approaching the additional 1-year training requirement provided by the updated condo requirements in July of 2024.
At some point (maybe 45 days later), they sent out a mailer with "intent to run" form and proxies and a meeting agenda, which included "floor nominations" verbiage again. NOTE, I never received it as my mail was being forwarded for the summer, and I would only find out about this from another neighbor later on, after the date to submit the "intent to run" had passed. Another resident who was also thinking of joining the board DID NOT receive the mailing and was ALSO not able to submit her "letter of intent". Prior to that, we received an email about an early July meeting, which is why I ended up staying in Florida in June. The official mailer had changed the date to late July, but again, I didn't know that.
Fwiw, specifically, I have stated that all critical information should also be emailed. Many people don't want physical mail. Electronic increases compliance but this was never emailed.
Fwiw, we never had a Q2 meeting unless the adjourned meeting counts as a meeting.
In mid-June, I had talked to another homeowner who was running for the board, and she did submit a letter of intent. That was when I found out about the mailer. She was NOT at the APRIL meeting so she wasn't aware of the floor nominations process discussion. Just in case our property manager tried to pull a fast one, I also filled out a letter of intent. The other resident did so as well. Both were late by a couple of days but before the candidate information sheets were due. My email with my "intent to run" was sent June 24th. I received no response. I started texting her and also texting the board members to no avail. Finally, after about two weeks with no response, I sent another text saying I was escalating this up the food chain and I finally got a phone call from the president.
We had a good conversation as we always do and he informed me that our property manager told him it was "not necessary" to come to that April annual meeting. To me, it now SEEMED our property manager had no intent on running the April meeting, knowing we would never meet her 51% requirement. I even questioned if this was done with malintent. The President also told me I should expect a phone call from the property manager. No call ever came, so I called our property management company, left a complaint, and asked for a call back. No callback came. I emailed her again on Jul 22, as I also didn't have a proxy to vote, and I asked her about the proxy and floor candidates process.
At this time, I also verified with a homeowner that the proper 14-day notice had been posted. It had been. The language was the same indicating agenda "floor nominations" verbiage. On Monday, July 28th, I finally received an email back (my first communication since that June 24th email) indicating she had been out of the office for a medical procedure. She had no out-of-office on and was responding the day before our annual meeting. She told me 3 positions were open, and 3 intent to be candidate forms were received, and NO election was now necessary.
I wrote a lengthy response indicating that we were told floor nominations were acceptable both in person and per the meeting agenda notice. Our annual meeting was to take place the next day, and I asked to reschedule it in good faith. I did NOT get a response.
At the annual meeting, which I attended virtually, I specifically asked if our board members had taken the required new FS718 certification class. She said our President had, but our other board member HAD NOT (which I already knew). We proceeded to have a regular board meeting with no voting process.
After the meeting, I wrote another lengthy email to the board, reminding them our board member was supposed to be suspended and was ineligible to submit a "letter of intent" because he had not taken the required training per FS718. That he had made motions at the board meeting, which he was unable to make as he should have been suspended. I also said I was officially challenging the meeting and they should consult our lawyer for the association's sake and that proper process was followed.
I have NOT heard back.
I believe THAT we didn't have our annual meeting nor a legal board meeting. That one board member was NOT eligible to participate in the board meeting. In addition, we clearly had residents who wanted to participate but were under the impression that we were doing floor nominations. Our President is a long-time board member who has constantly complained about the lack of people stepping up to be board members. That said, they have been terrible about communication, the process of being a board member, educating homeowners, and approaching homeowners. When I stepped down, I found a replacement immediately. Direct feedback from homeowners is that they want a new board without THIS guy on it. My interactions with him are that he just wants to make board decisions but follow no formal process. Prior experience with him as a board member has been poor, indicating a lack of desire to follow the process. He often times wanted to have a meeting without having a meeting and issued derogatory comments regarding homeowners, saying he DOESN'T want homeowners at the meeting and refers to them in texts as "the peanut gallery". I have no problems with him personally, just professionally.
So the question is next steps? I have no problem lawyering up and spending six-figures, maybe even seven - this is a matter of principle to me. However, the community is extremely poor in general and people don't have the money to pay for legal fees and I don't want to unduly burden them. Either way, it appears I have 60 days to officially challenge the election / annual meeting as far as I know. I can of course start the process of getting an agenda item to the next board meeting regarding the dismissal of our property manager. I can also start the process of getting the required buy-in to remove the board as well. It would be tight numbers-wise but I think I can get the numbers.
Either way, it is time to send a strong message to our property manager, our property manager firm, our board of directors and other COAs/HOAs that we (homeowners) are watching and that these bodies need to be held to a higher standard.
How can we tell homeowners their "intent to run" form is late when board members aren't holding property managers accountable for proper 14-day notice or board member education requirements?
These rules for thee, NOT for me, rub me the wrong way.
Thoughts?
Does anyone have a good lawyer recommendation if allowed?
In April of 2025, we had the "annual meeting". There was no mailer ever sent for this election with an "intent to run" form and the proper COA protocol was not followed. At the time I was NOT aware of the proper timing of an annual meeting, myself having never conducted one, and was not aware of the "intent to run" protocol. However, I was familiar with the requirement of 14-day posting of which the property manager did not respect. She posted it just a few days before the meeting and this was documented. It should be NOTED that the agenda for the election stipulated "floor nominations for board members". In the prior year, our property manager also did not place proper notice for the annual meeting, which was also documented. I did notify one of the board members of this delinquency, but I DID not challenge it at the time.
Upon arriving at the board meeting in 2025 homeowners were met with a grumpy property manager and one board member. This board member in general, has NOT been involved in the process of being an actual board member and doesn't own a computer or use email. IMHO, he has been a body with the property manager and the President running the show. I was specifically prepared to challenge the meeting once it was called to order and our property manager validated proper notice, but we never got that far.
Instead, when I asked where the President was, she told us he wasn't feeling well and wouldn't be joining us. She then adjourned the meeting for lack of quorum, saying we didn't have the 51% necessary to establish a meeting quorum. She then also issued a sob-story about her own HOA not having an annual meeting in 10 years, as if it was our problem that she has a dysfunctional HOA. We have 24 members, and 5 members were present, with one more in route. I had a decent understanding of our bylaws and FS718 vs FS720, but not to the nuisance of the annual meeting requirements, so I did NOT challenge it on the spot, although I did look up FS718 requirements, and came across the 20% rule. I did push back about it and she reiterated that I was wrong and 51% was necessary. I left it be for the time bieng, assuming she knows better than me, although I was 95% sure I was right. She did allow us to have a discussion where we discussed the election process and the process of floor nominations were discussed. We also discussed FUTURE online voting possibility because of the lack of participation by homeowners.
After the meeting, I reviewed FS718 and felt very confident about the 20% rule so I emailed her. She again pushed back and challenged me. I wrote another email with specific sections of FS718 highlighted and I ALSO politely asked her when the Meeting Notice was posted to take the hint that I knew it wasn't posted properly with 14 days notice.
A few days later, we all got an email saying they made a mistake and that we had a 20% quorum and should have had the meeting. We were then to have a new meeting at a later date. Now keep in mind the President resides in the north in the summer, and I myself also migrate except my exact location is NEVER to be determined as I don't have a second home in the north and prefer to travel/rent/visit family etc. I did ask in a follow-up email if there would be another board meeting prior to the annual and she said she didn't know, but I knew by law we had to have a meeting. We never had another in Q2. I also knew that the one board member HAD NOT taken their mandatory training, neither the 90-day requirement from prior years, and we were approaching the additional 1-year training requirement provided by the updated condo requirements in July of 2024.
At some point (maybe 45 days later), they sent out a mailer with "intent to run" form and proxies and a meeting agenda, which included "floor nominations" verbiage again. NOTE, I never received it as my mail was being forwarded for the summer, and I would only find out about this from another neighbor later on, after the date to submit the "intent to run" had passed. Another resident who was also thinking of joining the board DID NOT receive the mailing and was ALSO not able to submit her "letter of intent". Prior to that, we received an email about an early July meeting, which is why I ended up staying in Florida in June. The official mailer had changed the date to late July, but again, I didn't know that.
Fwiw, specifically, I have stated that all critical information should also be emailed. Many people don't want physical mail. Electronic increases compliance but this was never emailed.
Fwiw, we never had a Q2 meeting unless the adjourned meeting counts as a meeting.
In mid-June, I had talked to another homeowner who was running for the board, and she did submit a letter of intent. That was when I found out about the mailer. She was NOT at the APRIL meeting so she wasn't aware of the floor nominations process discussion. Just in case our property manager tried to pull a fast one, I also filled out a letter of intent. The other resident did so as well. Both were late by a couple of days but before the candidate information sheets were due. My email with my "intent to run" was sent June 24th. I received no response. I started texting her and also texting the board members to no avail. Finally, after about two weeks with no response, I sent another text saying I was escalating this up the food chain and I finally got a phone call from the president.
We had a good conversation as we always do and he informed me that our property manager told him it was "not necessary" to come to that April annual meeting. To me, it now SEEMED our property manager had no intent on running the April meeting, knowing we would never meet her 51% requirement. I even questioned if this was done with malintent. The President also told me I should expect a phone call from the property manager. No call ever came, so I called our property management company, left a complaint, and asked for a call back. No callback came. I emailed her again on Jul 22, as I also didn't have a proxy to vote, and I asked her about the proxy and floor candidates process.
At this time, I also verified with a homeowner that the proper 14-day notice had been posted. It had been. The language was the same indicating agenda "floor nominations" verbiage. On Monday, July 28th, I finally received an email back (my first communication since that June 24th email) indicating she had been out of the office for a medical procedure. She had no out-of-office on and was responding the day before our annual meeting. She told me 3 positions were open, and 3 intent to be candidate forms were received, and NO election was now necessary.
I wrote a lengthy response indicating that we were told floor nominations were acceptable both in person and per the meeting agenda notice. Our annual meeting was to take place the next day, and I asked to reschedule it in good faith. I did NOT get a response.
At the annual meeting, which I attended virtually, I specifically asked if our board members had taken the required new FS718 certification class. She said our President had, but our other board member HAD NOT (which I already knew). We proceeded to have a regular board meeting with no voting process.
After the meeting, I wrote another lengthy email to the board, reminding them our board member was supposed to be suspended and was ineligible to submit a "letter of intent" because he had not taken the required training per FS718. That he had made motions at the board meeting, which he was unable to make as he should have been suspended. I also said I was officially challenging the meeting and they should consult our lawyer for the association's sake and that proper process was followed.
I have NOT heard back.
I believe THAT we didn't have our annual meeting nor a legal board meeting. That one board member was NOT eligible to participate in the board meeting. In addition, we clearly had residents who wanted to participate but were under the impression that we were doing floor nominations. Our President is a long-time board member who has constantly complained about the lack of people stepping up to be board members. That said, they have been terrible about communication, the process of being a board member, educating homeowners, and approaching homeowners. When I stepped down, I found a replacement immediately. Direct feedback from homeowners is that they want a new board without THIS guy on it. My interactions with him are that he just wants to make board decisions but follow no formal process. Prior experience with him as a board member has been poor, indicating a lack of desire to follow the process. He often times wanted to have a meeting without having a meeting and issued derogatory comments regarding homeowners, saying he DOESN'T want homeowners at the meeting and refers to them in texts as "the peanut gallery". I have no problems with him personally, just professionally.
So the question is next steps? I have no problem lawyering up and spending six-figures, maybe even seven - this is a matter of principle to me. However, the community is extremely poor in general and people don't have the money to pay for legal fees and I don't want to unduly burden them. Either way, it appears I have 60 days to officially challenge the election / annual meeting as far as I know. I can of course start the process of getting an agenda item to the next board meeting regarding the dismissal of our property manager. I can also start the process of getting the required buy-in to remove the board as well. It would be tight numbers-wise but I think I can get the numbers.
Either way, it is time to send a strong message to our property manager, our property manager firm, our board of directors and other COAs/HOAs that we (homeowners) are watching and that these bodies need to be held to a higher standard.
How can we tell homeowners their "intent to run" form is late when board members aren't holding property managers accountable for proper 14-day notice or board member education requirements?
These rules for thee, NOT for me, rub me the wrong way.
Thoughts?
Does anyone have a good lawyer recommendation if allowed?