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LynneP1 (Oregon)
Posts: 17
Posted:
We have a renter (mother is offsite owner) who has become a problem. He (65) is likely mentally unstable, and mother continually asks for rules to be modified because of his PTSD. Example: He refuses to comply w/ new policy on smoking (can only smoke in one area of complex away from other units) and smokes in his unit w/windows open. His instability turned this into 'being picked on', and he has refused to comply. New policy was board decision (not done through change in bylaws). Adequate notice was given to all owners regarding new policy before it went into effect. Fine system is in place. I realize this makes it trickier than if the policy has been codified in bylaws, but it is still a legal policy for the campus.

One board member (and the mother) believe this renter is entitled to some kind of 'hearing' before being fined, because of Oregon law on smoking. I can find nothing in Oregon HOA law, about renters being allowed to challenge and it is not in the association's documents.

He likes to challenges every rule, (dog pees where asked not to; loud music coming from open window infringes on other owners; the smoking; makes smoked meats regularly which smell carries onto other owners' patios; speaks disrespectfully to board members, has harassed other owners who reported smoking, etc. etc. etc.] All this makes it cumbersome for the board to respond to each. new. thing.

Does anyone know of a situation - with attorney guidance obviously - where a renter can be asked to leave an HOA campus?

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
You have a renter AND owner problem. Save time and stress by discussing with a lawyer familiar with your governing documents.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Ultimately, the owner is responsible for the conduct of his/her household members or tenants, so that's who you'll need to go after. Your documents may have something about the homeowner's right to quiet enjoyment of his/her property, and that's been used to take legal action against people who maintain nuisance conditions.

Homeowners can sue each other for violations of the CCRs - I would assume that could include community rules, but you'll need to talk to the association attorney about your options. Most of us aren't attorneys and what's true in your state may not be the same in ours. It's not really a good idea to get legal advice on specific legal dustups from the internet (just because it's on the internet doesn't always mean it's true!)

I did a little Googling and here's what one person on Quora said on a similar subject (and he has PTSD):

"It’s your house, and any guests you allow to stay with you must be willing to abide by your conditions—PTSD or not. I too have severe PTSD, but if someone else also diagnosed (or not) were staying with me and they were even just disrespectful towards me—then sorry, it’s time to go. I’ve actually been in that situation before. They were asked to leave and did so within thirty minutes (I didn’t leave any other option).

PTSD sucks, it’s hard—for us, for those we love, and at times even people we just know. It wasn’t my fault I ended up with this illness, and I’m sure it wasn’t your friend’s either. But I have never treated anyone the way you describe. Sure I’ve had bad days and probably over reacted, but I have never threatened anyone...

It is possible that they actually don’t remember, and didn’t choose to behave that way, but that isn’t an excuse. If their illness is under so little control then they need to take it seriously and find a treatment method (assuming they are in treatment) that will work. This isn’t your responsibility either. If it’s important to them to preserve the relationship you (may) have, or to avoid these behaviors then the burden is on them to prove (which involves taking steps to ensure it doesn’t recur)."

Now, having quoted that, I agree with your colleagues that it's time for a hearing to get everything on the table regarding this man's behavior. If Mom keeps saying "but he has PTSD" to justify everything, then she and her son should be able to explain what he's doing to address his condition - smoking like a chimney creating a secondhand smoking situation isn't going to fix this. As a practical matter, he can keep the window shut when he lights up and get special ashtrays that can capture the smoke. For the loud music, research your documents to see what they say about noise and let these people know their neighbors have a right to sue them for those disturbances. For the dog peeping and possibly pooping everywhere, you'll need some evidence (time and date stamped photos of the dog letting it rip, so to speak) and bill the owner for the cleanup - or sue her for the cleanup. A complaint with the city might also help because this is a health hazard - maybe being fined will inspire her to make some changes.

It's not necessarily about moving the man out - the other residents should be adult enough to talk to him about his issues in an adult manner (no cussing, threats, throwing hands, etc.) They should also be keeping track of dates and times of bad behavior because if things escalate to where the man should leave, this will be necessary to show a judge, along with documentation of efforts you've made to resolve the problem.

Finally, you didn't say what prompted the man's PTSD, but talking to a local mental health organization may be useful in understanding where he's coming from and you could get suggestions on how to address it in a compassionate manner. That's not to say you haven't tried, but it can help to talk to people who work with folks who have issues like this. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneP1 on 09/16/2025 6:34 PM
We have a renter (mother is offsite owner) who has become a problem. He (65) is likely mentally unstable, and mother continually asks for rules to be modified because of his PTSD. Example: He refuses to comply w/ new policy on smoking (can only smoke in one area of complex away from other units) and smokes in his unit w/windows open. His instability turned this into 'being picked on', and he has refused to comply. New policy was board decision (not done through change in bylaws). Adequate notice was given to all owners regarding new policy before it went into effect. Fine system is in place. I realize this makes it trickier than if the policy has been codified in bylaws, but it is still a legal policy for the campus.

One board member (and the mother) believe this renter is entitled to some kind of 'hearing' before being fined, because of Oregon law on smoking.
Observations (based on years of reading HOA case law):

-- The courts see COA covenants as contractual terms.

-- The biggest problem is that the board changed a covenant pertaining to unit use. This means the board just messed over a landlord who took on a tenant who smokes, in the belief that smoking within the unit was written in concrete via the covenants.

-- If per chance the COA could get 100% agreement from owners on banning smoking in units, then the correct approach is to amend the covenants (not the bylaws).

-- The fine should be imposed on the owner, not the tenant. The COA most likely has no contractual relationship with the tenant. The COA does have a contractual relationship with the owner.

-- Any competent HOA attorney is going to tell you that at some point before trying to collect a fine, the unit owner is in fact entitled to a hearing.

-- So far from a quick check, I do not believe Oregon law gives COA boards special powers regarding smoking. Instead Oregon law defers to the COA's covenants.

-- Your board needs to hire an HOA attorney post-haste. Ask the attorney about the legality of its policy. Ask the attorney about why hearings are required.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 09/17/2025 6:52 AM
Ultimately, the owner is responsible for the conduct of his/her household members or tenants, so that's who you'll need to go after.
[snippage]
Finally, you didn't say what prompted the man's PTSD, but talking to a local mental health organization may be useful in understanding where he's coming from and you could get suggestions on how to address it in a compassionate manner. That's not to say you haven't tried, but it can help to talk to people who work with folks who have issues like this.
There is no "ultimately" to it. All communications pertaining to this tenant's violations should be with the owner, period.

Per statute, a resident with a documented disability is entitled to accommodations that are "reasonable." I spoke to the smoking above. The smoking is a different issue that your board has likely botched up. For the other alleged nuisance violations by this tenant, so far I am not persuaded that the law requires any accommodation. Why? Because the other owners have a right to a certain amount of peaceful enjoyment, pursuant to what the covenants permit.

Documentation of the dog urinating in the wrong places, the harassment, the noise et cetera will be key.

Hire a well-qualified COA attorney.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
We really don’t disagree on anything, but because the disability issue will likely come up in a hearing, the board may as well prepare themselves by getting some education on the subject – thus my suggestion that they talk to someone from a mental health organization. They may even find someone who might be willing to listen in on the conversation and help both sides come to an understanding regarding behavior. I’m sure they’ve fielded similar situations from people who live with folks struggling with mental health issues. I suspect Mom knows all too well and that’s probably why her son doesn’t live with her.

The man needs a place to stay, but he’s not in a house in the middle of nowhere, he lives in a building with other people and has to find a way to live with them and treat his mental health. No, it’s not easy and does take time and understand from everyone. I’d rather see them make an attempt before something happens with the wrong person and then we’re seeing lawsuits and counter lawsuits which are costly and leave bad blood between everyone (sometimes literally).

If the OP is correct that Mom keeps asking for modifications that are making the building’s livability difficult for everyone else, it may be this building isn’t the best place for him and he needs to make other arrangements. You’re correct disabled people are entitled to reasonable accommodations, but I wasn’t thinking of the smoking. What about the dog pee – has this guy countered with “but this is my emotional support animal” (yes, but they still need basic training and be under the owner’s control)? Why else do you hear on this website and other places about people who’ve had all manner of critter as “emotional support animals” who aren’t trained at all and create all types of drama?

And that’s just the stuff that the OP mentioned – I don’t know what she meant by “mentally unstable” – that might actually be a lifestyle quirk that isn’t breaking the law and could be ignored. But by having a hearing, you put all the complaints on the table, determine which ones are violating the CCRs or community rules and perhaps running all this by the association attorney to ensure you don’t inadvertently violate the ADA.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
For personal safety and liability reasons, COA/HOA directors should never, ever approach tenants with mental illness. Nor do directors have any obligation to do so. Nor should directors be dealing with tenants when of course, the correct party to deal with is the owner.

The COA's only obligation is to enforce the covenants and so notify the owner of the tenant's problematic conduct
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneP1 on 09/16/2025 6:34 PM
We have a renter (mother is offsite owner) who has become a problem. He (65) is likely mentally unstable, and mother continually asks for rules to be modified because of his PTSD. Example: He refuses to comply w/ new policy on smoking (can only smoke in one area of complex away from other units) and smokes in his unit w/windows open. His instability turned this into 'being picked on', and he has refused to comply. New policy was board decision (not done through change in bylaws). Adequate notice was given to all owners regarding new policy before it went into effect. Fine system is in place. I realize this makes it trickier than if the policy has been codified in bylaws, but it is still a legal policy for the campus.

One board member (and the mother) believe this renter is entitled to some kind of 'hearing' before being fined, because of Oregon law on smoking. I can find nothing in Oregon HOA law, about renters being allowed to challenge and it is not in the association's documents.

He likes to challenges every rule, (dog pees where asked not to; loud music coming from open window infringes on other owners; the smoking; makes smoked meats regularly which smell carries onto other owners' patios; speaks disrespectfully to board members, has harassed other owners who reported smoking, etc. etc. etc.] All this makes it cumbersome for the board to respond to each. new. thing.

Does anyone know of a situation - with attorney guidance obviously - where a renter can be asked to leave an HOA campus?


You need an enforcement policy and due process is included. This means when an owner receives a violation notice they have a right to appeal.

When the first notice is sent, it is basically a warning. The owner has a time period to correct the issue or end the behavior. The owner can appeal within 7 days and advised of their right to appeal.

If things persist, the 2nd notice is a fine. Again the owner has the right to appeal within 7 days. Each subsequent violation has an increased fine.

If the owner does not appeal a step 2 violation (fine) and then wants an appeal hearing for a step 3 violation, the first fine stands is not appealable.
LynneP1 (Oregon)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Thanks for the feedback
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I am going to assume this is a condo complex and this tenant is bbq'ing slash smoking on the patio, balcony?
That is a fire hazard, a phone call to the fire marshal will hopefully stop that.
That alone is a health and safety violation and a nuisance

We had a problem like that, mom owned the house, son lived in the house. Son shacked up with like mined woman.
smoked weed, ran a homeless shelter out of the home, orgies, multiple cars jacked up in the street, driveway, cherry picker.
two times police swat raids, multiple complaints to the owner, threats of lawsuit against the owner.
We fined, multiple hearings against the owner.

The son was finally sent to prison and the mother officially evicted her son and sold the home.
Courts don't give a good gravy about a persons handicap if they are committing flagrant violations that are putting the health and
safety of the community in jeopardy.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 09/17/2025 7:29 AM
Posted By LynneP1 on 09/16/2025 6:34 PM
We have a renter (mother is offsite owner) who has become a problem. He (65) is likely mentally unstable, and mother continually asks for rules to be modified because of his PTSD. Example: He refuses to comply w/ new policy on smoking (can only smoke in one area of complex away from other units) and smokes in his unit w/windows open. His instability turned this into 'being picked on', and he has refused to comply. New policy was board decision (not done through change in bylaws). Adequate notice was given to all owners regarding new policy before it went into effect. Fine system is in place. I realize this makes it trickier than if the policy has been codified in bylaws, but it is still a legal policy for the campus.

One board member (and the mother) believe this renter is entitled to some kind of 'hearing' before being fined, because of Oregon law on smoking.
Observations (based on years of reading HOA case law):

-- The courts see COA covenants as contractual terms.

-- The biggest problem is that the board changed a covenant pertaining to unit use. This means the board just messed over a landlord who took on a tenant who smokes, in the belief that smoking within the unit was written in concrete via the covenants.

-- If per chance the COA could get 100% agreement from owners on banning smoking in units, then the correct approach is to amend the covenants (not the bylaws).

-- The fine should be imposed on the owner, not the tenant. The COA most likely has no contractual relationship with the tenant. The COA does have a contractual relationship with the owner.

-- Any competent HOA attorney is going to tell you that at some point before trying to collect a fine, the unit owner is in fact entitled to a hearing.

-- So far from a quick check, I do not believe Oregon law gives COA boards special powers regarding smoking. Instead Oregon law defers to the COA's covenants.

-- Your board needs to hire an HOA attorney post-haste. Ask the attorney about the legality of its policy. Ask the attorney about why hearings are required.

I understand your point, but I believe the HOA, in part, enacted a smoking rule for the common areas. A court is going to uphold that every day.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 09/22/2025 5:14 PM

I understand your point, but I believe the HOA, in part, enacted a smoking rule for the common areas. A court is going to uphold that every day.
Read the first post.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I read it. And in part, they have designated a location in a common area for smoking. They could have banned all smoking in common areas.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
I read the OP to be saying smoking was banned in units.
LynneP1 (Oregon)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Smoking not banned in units. Because smoke 'drifts', smoking not allowed in unit with windows/doors open (or on patios/balconies) where smoke also drifts to nearby units. In some cases the units are attached by a common wall (like in a duplex situation) and the issue was smoke causing allergy and other health issues for nearby owners.

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