homeowner using attorney to run up our legal bill

BillB38 (Michigan)
Posts: 1

Posted:

a disgruntled homeower is insisting that all correspondence to them from the board be done between his attorney and ours. This is a spiteful ploy to run up expenses. do we have to use our attorney to respond to his in very simple matters?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

The homeowner's attorney should communicate solely with the HOA attorney.

The HOA attorney should communicate solely with the homeowner's attorney.

The attorneys' Rules of Professional Conduct require the above. The latter is a big deal.

Can the HOA lawfully communicate directly with either the owner or the owner's attorney? As long as the communications pertain to legitimate HOA business, then yes. However risks arise when doing so. If the topic about which the HOA is communicating is part of the legal dispute, then the HOA should communicate only via the HOA attorney. Otherwise the HOA insurer (for one) may deny any HOA claim made pursuant to the dispute.

Can the owner lawfully communicate directly with either the HOA Board (or manager) or the HOA attorney? In general, yes.

It is possible your governing documents allow the HOA to bill the owner for at least some of the HOA attorney expenses. The wording for this has to be very narrow and specific to be enforceable by a court.

Now it is time to ask your HOA attorney.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Correspondence about what, Bill? Are they just griping about a Board decision they don't like?

Or accusing the Board of illegal conduct?

And your attorney is sending your Board bills based on their assertions, or whatever?

What are they "disgruntled?"

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillB38 on 05/15/2025 3:58 PM
a disgruntled homeower is insisting that all correspondence to them from the board be done between his attorney and ours. This is a spiteful ploy to run up expenses. do we have to use our attorney to respond to his in very simple matters?

You are under no obligation to spend HOA funds for an attorney for this. If the owner elects his mailing address to be C/O his attorney, send correspondence to that address. Otherwise, correspondence goes to his address of record - just like every other owner.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 05/15/2025 4:47 PM
The homeowner's attorney should communicate solely with the HOA attorney.

The HOA attorney should communicate solely with the homeowner's attorney.

The attorneys' Rules of Professional Conduct require the above. The latter is a big deal.

Can the HOA lawfully communicate directly with either the owner or the owner's attorney? As long as the communications pertain to legitimate HOA business, then yes. However risks arise when doing so. If the topic about which the HOA is communicating is part of the legal dispute, then the HOA should communicate only via the HOA attorney. Otherwise the HOA insurer (for one) may deny any HOA claim made pursuant to the dispute.

Can the owner lawfully communicate directly with either the HOA Board (or manager) or the HOA attorney? In general, yes.

It is possible your governing documents allow the HOA to bill the owner for at least some of the HOA attorney expenses. The wording for this has to be very narrow and specific to be enforceable by a court.

Now it is time to ask your HOA attorney.

The post was all correspondence. The newsletter doesn’t need to come from the HOA’s attorney.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 05/16/2025 5:39 PM

Posted By ElleN on 05/15/2025 4:47 PM
The homeowner's attorney should communicate solely with the HOA attorney.

The HOA attorney should communicate solely with the homeowner's attorney.

The attorneys' Rules of Professional Conduct require the above. The latter is a big deal.

Can the HOA lawfully communicate directly with either the owner or the owner's attorney? As long as the communications pertain to legitimate HOA business, then yes. However risks arise when doing so. If the topic about which the HOA is communicating is part of the legal dispute, then the HOA should communicate only via the HOA attorney. Otherwise the HOA insurer (for one) may deny any HOA claim made pursuant to the dispute.

Can the owner lawfully communicate directly with either the HOA Board (or manager) or the HOA attorney? In general, yes.

It is possible your governing documents allow the HOA to bill the owner for at least some of the HOA attorney expenses. The wording for this has to be very narrow and specific to be enforceable by a court.

Now it is time to ask your HOA attorney.

The post was all correspondence. The newsletter doesn’t need to come from the HOA’s attorney.

Before responding to my post, you should have read it.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 05/16/2025 6:17 PM

Posted By DeanJ on 05/16/2025 5:39 PM

Posted By ElleN on 05/15/2025 4:47 PM
The homeowner's attorney should communicate solely with the HOA attorney.

The HOA attorney should communicate solely with the homeowner's attorney.

The attorneys' Rules of Professional Conduct require the above. The latter is a big deal.

Can the HOA lawfully communicate directly with either the owner or the owner's attorney? As long as the communications pertain to legitimate HOA business, then yes. However risks arise when doing so. If the topic about which the HOA is communicating is part of the legal dispute, then the HOA should communicate only via the HOA attorney. Otherwise the HOA insurer (for one) may deny any HOA claim made pursuant to the dispute.

Can the owner lawfully communicate directly with either the HOA Board (or manager) or the HOA attorney? In general, yes.

It is possible your governing documents allow the HOA to bill the owner for at least some of the HOA attorney expenses. The wording for this has to be very narrow and specific to be enforceable by a court.

Now it is time to ask your HOA attorney.

The post was all correspondence. The newsletter doesn’t need to come from the HOA’s attorney.

Before responding to my post, you should have read it.

I did read your post. “ Can the HOA lawfully communicate directly with either the owner or the owner's attorney? As long as the communications pertain to legitimate HOA business, then yes.”

What exactly is being communicated that isn’t legitimate HOA business?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

DeanJ, I understand you believe Boards and or HOA Presidents et cetera never go off the rails and send abusive, harassing communications with no basis in HOA business.

Give a person a little power, and some will misuse it.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 05/16/2025 9:15 PM
DeanJ, I understand you believe Boards and or HOA Presidents et cetera never go off the rails and send abusive, harassing communications with no basis in HOA business.

Give a person a little power, and some will misuse it.

And some owners believe any enforcement of any rule is harassment. It cuts both ways.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 05/17/2025 2:24 PM

Posted By ElleN on 05/16/2025 9:15 PM
DeanJ, I understand you believe Boards and or HOA Presidents et cetera never go off the rails and send abusive, harassing communications with no basis in HOA business.

Give a person a little power, and some will misuse it.

And some owners believe any enforcement of any rule is harassment. It cuts both ways.

Yeah, this is a non sequitur.

Owners may believe what they want. If an owner is in the middle of a legal dispute, and breaks some rule that is being regularly enforced with others, the HOA has a duty to send the owner a notice of violation just as it would any other owner. The owner can try to call it harassment. His/her attorney and a court would likely tell him, "nope."

Likewise a HOA may believe what it wants. If an owner in a legal dispute contacts a HOA manager to report actual vandalism on the common area (said vandalism being unrelated to the legal dispute), no court is going to call this harassment, as much as say the HOA manager might declare it is harassment.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I, personally, nee to see more from BillB, the OP, about why this owner is disgruntled??? Doe it a have anything at all to do with the Board needing to pay th association's legal counsel for some kind of written opinions??

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

The reason the HOA wants communication to be handled by the attorneys is to avoid a breach of attorney-client privilege. It's easy to inadvertently say something that comes back to bite you. Your attorney protects you from that.

I'll note that while the disgruntled owner may be "running up the bill", the HOA will also be running up the disgruntled owner's bill by letting his attorney sort through newsletters, community announcements, and the like at umpty-hundred dollars per hour. Just sayin'...

This is a good illustration of why it's smart for both parties to settle issues without resorting to lawyers, if possible. Once the lawyers are involved, the parties lose control of the process and pay through their noses for the privilege. The rest of the membership, who are probably innocent bystanders, may also pay for the privilege. News like this tends to get around a community and can do a number on community relations.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

The HOA attorney has no obligation to talk w/ the homeowners' attorney if the HOA doesn't wish to hire their attorney for this issue. The property owner can cover both sides of the legal bill if he/she is insisting on nagging the HOA.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 05/18/2025 10:56 AM
The reason the HOA wants communication to be handled by the attorneys is to avoid a breach of attorney-client privilege. It's easy to inadvertently say something that comes back to bite you. Your attorney protects you from that.

I'll note that while the disgruntled owner may be "running up the bill", the HOA will also be running up the disgruntled owner's bill by letting his attorney sort through newsletters, community announcements, and the like at umpty-hundred dollars per hour. Just sayin'...

This is a good illustration of why it's smart for both parties to settle issues without resorting to lawyers, if possible. Once the lawyers are involved, the parties lose control of the process and pay through their noses for the privilege. The rest of the membership, who are probably innocent bystanders, may also pay for the privilege. News like this tends to get around a community and can do a number on community relations.

Just because an owner or his attorney sends a letter doesn’t require the HOA or their attorney to respond to it.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 05/18/2025 2:43 PM
The HOA attorney has no obligation to talk w/ the homeowners' attorney if the HOA doesn't wish to hire their attorney for this issue. The property owner can cover both sides of the legal bill if he/she is insisting on nagging the HOA.

Both of these statements are false.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 05/19/2025 5:48 PM

Posted By CathyA3 on 05/18/2025 10:56 AM
The reason the HOA wants communication to be handled by the attorneys is to avoid a breach of attorney-client privilege. It's easy to inadvertently say something that comes back to bite you. Your attorney protects you from that.

I'll note that while the disgruntled owner may be "running up the bill", the HOA will also be running up the disgruntled owner's bill by letting his attorney sort through newsletters, community announcements, and the like at umpty-hundred dollars per hour. Just sayin'...

This is a good illustration of why it's smart for both parties to settle issues without resorting to lawyers, if possible. Once the lawyers are involved, the parties lose control of the process and pay through their noses for the privilege. The rest of the membership, who are probably innocent bystanders, may also pay for the privilege. News like this tends to get around a community and can do a number on community relations.

Just because an owner or his attorney sends a letter doesn’t require the HOA or their attorney to respond to it.

Whether the HOA attorney has a duty to respond is situation dependent.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

And I this thread, the OP won't tell us what the "situation" is. The OP implies it's a "simple matter." Like what? If the owner is "disgruntled" about being fined, I' m with Kelly & Dean.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillB38 on 05/15/2025 3:58 PM
a disgruntled homeower is insisting that all correspondence to them from the board be done between his attorney and ours. This is a spiteful ploy to run up expenses. do we have to use our attorney to respond to his in very simple matters?

The board decides when to incur legal expenses, nobody else. All correspondence should be sent to the board first. Board's attorney should forward to the board such correspondence. If the board decides to involve the association's attorney it's their decision.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 05/21/2025 7:29 AM

The board decides when to incur legal expenses, nobody else. All correspondence should be sent to the board first. Board's attorney should forward to the board such correspondence. If the board decides to involve the association's attorney it's their decision.

When Attorney X represents Party X for dispute XY, Attorney Y representing Party Y for this same dispute is legally obliged to communicate first with Attorney X (and not Party X) on all issues involving dispute XY. Attorney Y is not to speak directly with Party X unless Attorney Y has Attorney X's position.

And vice versa.

Why does the law require this?

To protect unsophisticated parties like Party X and Party Y from stepping on legal land mines. Also to help minimize confusion which could end up causing more litigation, backing up the courts still more.

If Attorney 1 knows Party 2 is represented by Attorney 2, then Attorney 1 risks being suspended or disbarred for speaking directly to Party 2. Attorney 1 also risks a malpractice claim by Party 1.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Michigan Attorneys' Rule of Professional Conduct 4.2 (a):

Rule 4.2. Communication With a Person Represented by Counsel.
(a) In representing a client, a lawyer shall not communicate about the subject of the
representation with a person whom the lawyer knows to be represented in the
matter by another lawyer, unless the lawyer has the consent of the other lawyer or
is authorized by law to do so.

See https://www.courts.michigan.gov/4b1134/siteassets/rules-instructions-administrative-orders/rules-of-professional-conduct/michigan-rules-of-professional-conduct.pdf

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 05/22/2025 9:08 AM
Attorney Y is not to speak directly with Party X unless Attorney Y has Attorney X's position.

Post-o. Change "position" to "permission."