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EricB13 (Illinois)
Posts: 29
Posted:
We are looking to make a change to our declaration document and the revision section states:

"This Declaration may be changed, modified, or rescinded by an instrument in writing, setting forth such change, modification or rescission, signed and acknowledged by the President or a Vice-President of the Association, and approved by the Owners having two-thirds (2/3) or more of the total votes for each class of voting membership then in existence, after notice and a meeting of the Members has been held for such vote."

We are a fully built out community of 600 homes so we were always told that to get any changes done, it would have to pass with at least 400 yes votes once ballots are sent out.

I feel like the last part of the revision language outlines this process as needing to hold a meeting of the members. The bylaws outline that a quorum of a meeting of the members is 20% of homes.
So in this case, 20% of 600 is 120 needed to hold quorum and then we would need 2/3 of 120 at a minimum to pass changes.

Thoughts?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,335
Posted:
The phrase "approved by the Owners having two-thirds (2/3) or more of the total votes for each class" seems clear to me. Assuming there is only one class, it is saying at least 400 votes are needed to amend.

I do not understand your reasoning that the phraseology means something else.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/15/2025 8:48 AM
The phrase "approved by the Owners having two-thirds (2/3) or more of the total votes for each class" seems clear to me. Assuming there is only one class, it is saying at least 400 votes are needed to amend.

I do not understand your reasoning that the phraseology means something else.

I agree with this, it is 2/3 of the members, not 2/3 of members at a meeting. When we did our amendments, we didn't even have a meeting, the amendment package was distributed to each member, and returned to the board. That was hard enough, including lots of door to door work. I can't imagine getting enough votes to pass an amendment in a meeting context.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
EricB13 (Illinois)
Posts: 29
Posted:
I see your point, but I'm also focusing on the last part where it states: "after notice and a meeting of the Members has been held for such vote."

I feel like that language is in there for a reason if it's talking about proper notice and a meeting to be held. The 2/3 rule would then apply to those who are in attendance at the meeting held for that amendment.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,335
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EricB13 on 05/15/2025 9:19 AM
I see your point, but I'm also focusing on the last part where it states: "after notice and a meeting of the Members has been held for such vote."

I feel like that language is in there for a reason if it's talking about proper notice and a meeting to be held. The 2/3 rule would then apply to those who are in attendance at the meeting held for that amendment.
First, chances are the Declaration was written before voting online was well-developed.

Second, meetings are often held for votes on amendments so that each side may present its arguments. Then people vote.

Third, where votes require only a percentage of those in attendance (in person or by proxy), the language is much more clear than what your Declaration has.

Fourth, Declarations (CC&Rs) are purposely written to be difficult to amend. The thinking is that those who own land subject to covenants should be able to rely on the covenants not being changed easily. The high "affirmative" percentage required for amendments promotes stability.

Fifth, perhaps others will respond. If folks here mostly agree that the magic number is 400 (assuming each lot has the same percentage voting interest as all other lots), then I trust you know your next step is to go to an attorney for her opinion.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Typically, corporate law specifies membership votes are to be taken at a meeting where a quorum is present.
Corporate law, typically, defers to the Associations governing documents for quorum requirements and # of votes needed to pass.

Per your bylaws, you must have 20% of the lots represented in person or by proxy at a meeting to conduct business (take votes, be it to elect Directors, adopt a budget or amend the governing documents).

That is step one.

Step two specifies that you must have 2/3 of the membership approve any change to the CC&Rs.

Therefore, what you have been told is correct.
You must hold a meeting where a quorum is present.
You must have a minimum of 400 lots agree to the amendment.
EricB13 (Illinois)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/15/2025 11:26 AM
Typically, corporate law specifies membership votes are to be taken at a meeting where a quorum is present.
Corporate law, typically, defers to the Associations governing documents for quorum requirements and # of votes needed to pass.

Per your bylaws, you must have 20% of the lots represented in person or by proxy at a meeting to conduct business (take votes, be it to elect Directors, adopt a budget or amend the governing documents).

That is step one.

Step two specifies that you must have 2/3 of the membership approve any change to the CC&Rs.

Therefore, what you have been told is correct.
You must hold a meeting where a quorum is present.
You must have a minimum of 400 lots agree to the amendment.

What we were told was that there would be no meeting of the members - only paper ballots and online voting sent out to all homeowners with some type of timeframe for ballot/voting collection. So that's how they came up with the 400 votes to pass.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
That would be in accordance with the 765 ILCS 160/1-25 which says (in part):

(h-5) A member may vote:
(1) by proxy executed in writing by the member or by his or her duly authorized attorney in fact, provided, however, that the proxy bears the date of execution. Unless the community instruments or the written proxy itself provide otherwise, proxies will not be valid for more than 11 months after the date of its execution; or

(2) by submitting an association-issued ballot in person at the election meeting; or

(3) by submitting an association-issued ballot to the association or its designated agent by mail or other means of delivery specified in the declaration or bylaws; or

(4) by any electronic or acceptable technological means.

Votes cast under any paragraph of this subsection (h-5) are valid for the purpose of establishing a quorum.

Note: As my emphasis above shows, you must still have a quorum. However, with a quorum of 20%, if you achieve 400 votes you will also have easily achieved a quorum.

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